Trumpet Lesson with Claude Gordon teaching Susan Slaughter September 1982 - Lesson 1

Transcript Summary

Here are my students, an article, and the pictures.
Like, I'm glad I got a picture with old Jimmy Burt
before he died.
Oh, that's great, yes.
And Manny, and of course, he's always in here.
And an article about Herbert Clark.
And Shokie died, too.
Yes, I was just about to say the same thing to you.
I didn't know if you ever heard of him.
He was drinking, and this one here on the diaphragm.
He was drinking a quarter scotch a day.
I didn't know he drank that much.
And this is another one, like, so there's four of them.
Why don't you just take that one?
I got an excellent one.
Well, OK, or I'll use it to mail these out to us.
I've received it in the mail before,
so I'll look through it and re-advance it.
OK, all right.
I wonder why they haven't mailed it already.
That's the thing, because it's been.
Since March.
That was last March.
Which you never know about, Charlie.
Yeah, let me see.


CG: Alright, while I’m getting this all set up then, why don’t you just start on out with that.
SS: Ok.
CG: That one there. Now do you, by any chance have, yes you do. Did I tell you to bring that. SS: Yes, these two books here. Schlossberg. This is a little worn. I’ll take the cover off.
CG: That’s alright. We don’t care about the cover anyway.
SS: (laughs) Right.
CG: Alright, let’s start then.
CG: Ooh, pedals are starting nice aren’t they.
SS: Plays all of Tongue Level #1 and #2.
CG: Now did you say you were out jogging?
SS: Today?
CG: No, on the routines.
SS: I don’t understand.
CG: Just sometimes when your chest drops?
SS: Oh, no, no, no. I’ve been doing this. Jogging it.
CG: Ok.
SS: I didn’t get too much in this last week.
CG: No, I don’t imagine so.
SS: (LAUGHS) A lot of miles under the wheels but not under the feet.
CG: Yeah, right! How is the tour going?
SS: Ah, it went very well.
CG: Good, good.
SS: The economy is going to cut into concerts. We played fewer concerts than we usually do. CG: Oh, I see.
SS: So, instead of being like a two-week tour, it’s a one-week tour.

CG: That’s gonna come out though.

SS: Yep, I think so too.


CG: How’s the K-modified working?

SS: Very good. I would still say I’m in transition. I’m surprised. Lots of times it’s there more than I’m aware of.

CG: Yeah, pretty soon it’ll be there just all the time. You know, and that’s why I cautioned you before. Don’t try to make it work on the job. You practice it like crazy and when you get on the job you just play.

SS: Right.

CG: Because too many try to make things work, you know, and that’s when you start getting in trouble. It’ll work because it’s the natural way to play and that’s been the biggest secret of the ages. You know, that’s amazing how that has was not taught in any way. There are a few teachers that mention it but such a small amount I don’t think even the students that they taught probably got into it because they didn’t stay with it, see.

SS: Right.

CG: I know when Clarke taught me that I just went into a tailspin because he didn’t uh, like I do. That’s why I just nurse every student along gradually with it because I remember what I went through. And when he first told me he just said “do it”. He didn’t say any graduation or anything. He said, “that’s the way you do it.” So, I tried to do it. I tried to go play on the job that way, everything. And nothing worked. Of course, it has to be developed. So that’s why I go gradually. Again, the fact that it’’re doing it more than you realize, it shows that it’s coming along. Ok, alright, let’s turn over to um, let me hear, see what that 14 was. Ok, let me hear 15 then. You feel warmed up don’t you.

SS: Hahaha, ok. I’m not very fast on this one yet. CG: No, I don’t care about speed.

CG: Very good Susan. The only things is watch those intervals. Like that one can throw you because it drops that wide interval all of a sudden. Let me hear it on the 2nd [valve].


CG: Ok, you go down seven and repeat the first. Now let me hear 16. Now 16 looks difficult. It’s not really, as long as that tongue is in the K Modified position. Keep your chest up so that you have your support and just light on the low C.


CG: Yeah! Now a lot of players will go Taw Eee. No, never do that. It’s always Taw Hee. In other words, never break the air, ever. Now you did it right. Some players will go Taw Eee and it’s no good. Like there was one, he’s here in town teaching and he’s a good player and uh, he used that school tonguing too much—dee dee dee dee—all the time. We discussed that before. You have to use it but if you practice it all the time your tongue gets lazy and it just lays down. But he says...and another thing when you tongue it’s daw dee dee, see where in a tee tee, that tongue comes right up to the front and that’s where we want it. Tee, see, right up there. Because if it’s not up there you’re not going to have that range, see. But they over teach the Dee syllable. So he was teaching, he says, “Now when you go up...I don’t want that break in there...doo wee, doo wee. Like that, he says, I want that air to be constant. Doo wee, remember he was president once. Hahahaha. Pretty clever because a guy’ll remember that. Every time he does it you’ll think of that doo wee. Alright, you go down seven positions and repeat the first. Alright, now let’s hear 17.


CG: Ok. Let’s add two octaves on that.


CG: You’re doing those beautiful Susan. Absolutely beautiful. Ok, you go down seven and repeat the first. Now let me hear uh, what is it, 17?

SS: That was 17.
CG: Alright, now 18.
CG: He, he, it’s got some good ones doesn’t it.
SS: Yeah.
CG: Let’s do that again. (sings exercise).
CG: Feel what that tongue’s doing now?
SS: inaudible
CG: You feel it more than you did last time I saw you. SS: Oh yes.

CG: You see how it’d be, probably by now I hope you realize, without that tongue you could not play. You could not go up at all. And so what a fallacy a lot of this teaching is, when they say that you’ve got to say aw all the time if you’re going to get a big sound. Come over here. Let me show you where that comes from.

Now you’ve got your upper teeth, right and your lower teeth. Now the gum line starts about like that. Comes around. Alright now your tongue would be right like this, so that the EE is up front right. EE as in Ci. Alright now the back comes around like this. Now as you see, it doesn’t

really have anything to do with the throat back there. It’s all up in the front of the mouth. So, and the tip of course is like that.

Now where the false or erroneous ideas come from, let’s take a look at this. We have, there the gum line again comes up and around like this and the tip of the tongue would be somewhat like that. Now you notice how that tip will rise sometimes in back? Sometimes it will go right to the top edge of the teeth. Clarke said that sometimes he’d get a vibration of his lip on the tongue. It just tickles so bad...

SS: I’ve had that too. That’s alright. CG: Yeah. For sure. It goes up there. SS: Don’t stop it, huh?

CG: No. The tongue will tell you. That’s the thing. What comes out of that bell, you know something’s right if it’s right. Now if you say EE, now some say, you’ve seen it in books, EE and some will even say ICH. No because EE, now if you say ICH, that’s back in there, see. So you can say EE there too. EE, it’s way in the back. So that would be like this. That would affect the throat. So, TEE or ICH, like that. That’s wrong, no matter how much they push it. And this is where, those that say “oh I can’t go along with that tongue theory, so called. This is the way they’re picturing it. Well now, of course that’s going to shut it off. And where you need it to get your fluency and range, you’ve got nothing. It’s never in the back of the mouth. It’s right up in the front. Everything you play is right up in the front. All your control, everything.


SS: I had arrived at that conclusion when I came to you last year but I didn’t know how to do it.

CG: Is that right?

SS: I knew it had to be in the front and this is what I talked about but I always have to stop and say...(inaudible)..I just know that sometimes it works very efficiently and now I can just tell.

CG: You can see why sometimes it works so beautiful and sometimes it’ll work good because then you slip into the other see. Especially if you got tired and were forcing or something like that. Then it would work wrong.

Ok, that’s clear then. SS: Yes.

CG: And remember, this is never rigid, right. The tongue is never rigid. Always floating and flexible. Ok, now let’s hear that...uh, you go down seven and repeat the first. Now let me hear 19. Now on 19, on that last section, on the second line there, don’t play the short slur at all because I do not want you breathing between those two. I want you to take the long slur.

SS: Play the top slur?

CG: Yep. And you take your breaths there because I don’t want you to breathe there. Let’s try , uh, yeah, that’s the one. Let’s try that now. In 6/8.


CG: Let’s try that on the B. SS: PLAYS 2ND VALVE

CG: Right. Ok, now the last one comes up from the F# position. First of all, do it on 1 and 3 where it’s written. And you can breath between phrases there.


CG: Yeah, now when you come up to the last one, that’s the strong part, see. Let’s do it on the all 3 position.

SS: PLAYS 1-2-3
CG: Ok, now you can keep going on those. SS: PLAYS 2-3, 1-2, 1, 2, OPEN

CG: Ok, and then of course, you go all the way up. All right, that will finish those and then you can just put them away unless you know, you have them if you want to use them sometime or whatever. Now come around here again. This book is so botched up you won’t believe it but it is such a good book. He left all three positions off all the way through except in one place. So, I want you to start always and end always on 1-2-3. Now let’s put that up here. Ok, and that’ll go all the way through. Now these are all actually tongue level exercises. In fact every flexibility book is whether it says so or not.

SS: That’s what I call them now.

CG: Good. Yeah, once you get into, you can’t get away from. It has to be. Now when we get to this one I’ll just lightly check it off because it’s a superfluous exercise. It’s covered in so many and he’s got it slow which just tires you. It does nothing for you.

SS: You should have one more stamp made up I think.

CG: what’s wrong.

SS: You should have one that says, “this is so easy.”

CG: (Laughing). That’s right! Psychologically that means a lot you know. Boy if you think it’s hard.

SS: It is, if you think it is.

CG: That’s for sure. You know, and once you get that chest up, have you noticed that, you can coast, you know. It feels so good. Never forget Susan, your air does the work. That chest is up, when you coasting, that air is doing the work, you save the lip, see. The air saves the lip. It’s so disgusting to see some of these young players, siting like this, see. Not only the young player, I see the professional players doing it too. I have quite a few students coming over from Vegas now, especially the first players. Those guys are so paranoid.

SS: Is there a Walter Blanton who comes in to see you? CG: No.

SS: Ok.
CG: Oh, incidentally, is he in Vegas?
SS: That’s what I understand. I played on my junior recital with him. Long time ago.

CG: A student of yours called me and wanted to take some lessons while he was out here and I just couldn’t get him in. And I suggested to him, I said, “it’s not going to cost you anymore,” I said, “you’ll get so much if you come to Brass Camp.” But he just couldn’t feel like he could get away from his folks to get to the brass camp which he should’ve. It would have done much more than just a lesson.

SS: Yeah, I understand.

CG: Now, look at here how...I don’t know whether it was him [Staigers] or the copyist got it all botched up. He’s got Haw on the upper notes, he’s got Haw on the lower notes, then he says, “Use the haw syllable, your low register’s important” and he’s got Tee on the low note. So I’m going to change all this.

SS: Thank you for sending those records.
CG: Oh, good. I’m glad you got them.
SS: Excellent, beautiful. And that’s the first time they’ve been released?

CG: Some of them, ya. A few were released, Warner Bros. When the band was going pretty strong there, but that was right at the inception of the Rock era. So for all that time they’ve been in the vaults over there and no action.

SS: Sounds wonderful.
CG: Well, I’m glad you like them.

SS: I’m not schooled in the Jazz side of, or the swing side, whatever the appropriate would be. I certainly have a healthy respect for it. All the pop concerts we do, it’s fun to try to...the guy who plays second helps me a lot with the style and stuff and I feel like I’m beginning to get it but, uh, it’s not easy.

CG: No, it isn’t.
SS: To do it right, nothing so easy.

CG: And some of these guys in these orchestras that play that way all the time boy they just, some of them just brutally abuse themselves.


CG: Ok. So now we’ll start this on all three. And take it about, uh K modified. [sings exercise]. Like that, and keep if fairly easy so that you don’t get too tired too quick. Let’s try it.

SS: And uh, breath whenever is necessary.

CG: Yes, oh yeah, no you breathe whenever you want. Try not to get below half and the top note’s the strongest. [sings exercise]. Ok and when you take a breath you don’t have to grab it in time either.


CG: Good. Ok, and you can end it anyway you want. I don’t care. Alright, now then let me hear it triple tongued.

CG: Ok. Alright, now let me hear it tongue 1 and slur 2.
CG: Ok, now just do the opposite. Slur 2 and tongue 1.
CG: Ok, now slur 3 at a time. Be sure to kick the top.
CG: Good, ok. That’s the models. Alright, now let me hear number 2.
SS: Do we never K tongue the whole thing?
CG: K modified now.
SS: I mean all K tongued. Do we do that ever?
CG: Oh, you mean straight just K tongue. No, not on these. It would make too many models SS: Because that’s really super.
CG: Are we doing that on anything now?
SS: Oh uh, Daily Routines some and St. Jacome’s.
CG: You like that huh?
SS: It’s of benefit I thought.

CG: That’s great. Well now, I’ll tell you what you can do. If you find that you’re not getting too tired and you want to add it, by all means go ahead. But don’t overdo, see, that’s the main thing. All right, let me hear the next one now and start on A sharp, K modified.



CG: Ok, now then the last, no. 3. Let me hear that one K modified, and a little kick on the top, taw tee tee taw. Like that see.


CG: Alright now, you will go through the entire page with each model. In other words don’t do each one with each model. Do all three with each model. The only trouble is when you get to number three, those models won’t gel because it’s groups of four. So you’ll do it K modified, double, and I’ll write this in. And then you tongue two, slur two and then slur two tongue two and then slur four. Now that’s the first week.

SS: Let me ask you just one question. So like, single tongue, your saying I would do models 1,2 and 3 single tongue then go back, triple tongue, double tongue.

CG: Uh huh.
SS: Ok so just keep...

CG: ...the whole page, yeah. Alright, now the second week, let’s turn over. The 4,5 and 6. Now these are exactly the same exercise up an interval. Let me hear the first one K modified.


CG: OK, What is that mouthpiece you’re playing?

SS: 11⁄4 C.

CG: 11⁄4? You always played that?

SS: Since about ’68.

CG: Is that right? What’d you have before that?

SS: A 5C.

CG: Is the 1 1⁄4 a little wider isn’t it?

SS: Yes. It was Edelstein who put me on it.

CG: You’ve always played it and liked it huh?

SS: I like it very much.

CG: Yeah, it’s a good...don’t ever mess with mouthpieces. It's the worst think in the world you can do. Never answers any problem and just gives you a lot of problems.

SS: I figure the problem is me anyway.
CG: Do you have your St. Jacome with you?


SS: Uh, let’s see. No, I don’t. That’s one I didn’t cram into my suitcase. I had to pack for both things.

CG: Gee, I wish I had that. There’s so much marking I’m going to have to do with it. SS: Ok. I’ll go buy one tomorrow.
CG: Well, that’s a lot of expense.
SS: This is uh, we’re on 160.

CG: How is your book? In good shape or torn up?
SS: No, it’s good shape but that doesn’t matter.
CG: If you got one, could you sell it to a student. Well, you’ve got markings in it too, don’t you? SS: I’ll just get one. It’s no problem. If the store has one I’ll get one.
CG: You're like me. I’ve got about ten of them.
SS: I’d rather have your markings in the book, ok.

CG: Alright, yeah, we do need the marking on it. Alright, now let’s go ahead and uh, let me hear the next one K modified. I’m not going to do all the models now because you’d be just too tired by the time we got through with everything.


CG: Alright now, let’s try number, the last one. Now this is slightly different. He has taw-taw -tee-taw taw-taw -tee-taw taw-taw -tee-taw taw-taw -tee-taw. Instead of four sets. Let me hear it double tongue.


CG: Ok, uh, now I’ll mark all the models in here for you. Now the third week, we’ll go on with number number 7. Now let me hear number 7. want to play a good horn?





SS: out.


I didn’t have this last time you were out here, did I?

I’m not certain. You were just working with the Bach company or something, you just... Yeah, I don’t think I had any here. Now when was that. How long ago was that?

Year and a half. 18 months or 17 months I guess I figured out. Is this the one that they put

Yeah, uh huh. They can’t keep up with it. It’s moving so fast. Oh, that’s great.


CG: There’s five lead players in Vegas have it already and they’re just going wild over it. I won’t say anything because, see how you like it. Alright, start on all three at about SINGS Tee-Taw- Taw, Tee-Taw-Taw Tee-Taw-Taw, Taw. Like that.


CG: Play a little C sharp, a third space, a third space C sharp and then play the octave below it.


CG: It’s amazingly close, isn’t it.

SS: Mmm hmmm! Very close.


CG: Play and an octave E, fourth space E.


CG: It’s amazingly in tune, very close. Ok, you can play a few on it if you want. Alright, now let me hear triple tongue, same one.

CG: Ok, now let me hear it tongue 1, slur 2. SS: Ok. PLAYS
CG: Ok, now slur 2, tongue 1.

CG: Alright now, let me hear slur 3 at a time. Now as you get better at these and they get easier, you can pick up the tempo but make sure that it’s always metronomic and always very accurate. Don’t do like some, they’ll slop over it. I’d like it...SINGS EXERCISE. Just like a little machine. Ok, next one.

SS: I plan to slower than, much slower than this.

CG: Yeah, ok. Now as written.


CG: Ok. Alright now then, the following week you’ll go ahead with number 8. There’s 8 models on this. Now let me hear it...SINGS EXERCISE. Like that. Starting on all three and K modified.

SS: PLAYS 45:08

CG: Ok, now let me hear it triple tongued. SS: Are you playing yet yourself.

CG: Ya, ya I love it. I put the other one away. Benge closed up their factory out here. Who knows happening with King. Boy I’ll tell you that last president they had, Menge? He just, well literally, I think he destroyed the company. They claim they’re going to take it back and work it out clean but I don’t see how that’s possible. There are so many things that are against that. In the first place this was a bigger factory than the King factory and, I don’t know. That guy just ruined it and that’s too bad because that was a fine company, really. But so many times that happens. You get a guy, they used to call him a Ketchup salesman. He was from General Foods. You can’t take a guy out of the food company and put him on instruments and think he’s going to do a job.

SS: Yeah, that’s true.
CG: All right, what what that one now.
SS: Triple tongue.
CG: All right, let’s hear that one.
CG: Now then, let’s take it tongue, no, model A. I’ll go by the models. SS: PLAYS
CG: Alright, now model B

CG: All right, now you’d have another one after this. Now this, come around here. This model C is not very clear. What it is is you’re slurring between the triplets every time. So I’ll pencil that in. Let’s try that one.


CG: Now, isn’t that funny. That’s the darnedest model. Once you're off, you're off. You may as well stop.

SS: Yeah.
CG: Ok, now then the next model is D. Tongue two and slur four, ok?
CG: OK. Now the next one, slur three at a time.
CG: Ok, now then you go all the way of course. Now let me hear slurred as written.


CG: Alright, now turn over the page and we’ll start on number 9. Now number 9, there’s 9 or more models. Use your third finger on that E down there on the first line. Let me hear it K modified. Taw taw tee taw, taw taw tee taw, taw. Like that.


CG: Ok. Any trouble with the routine getting too long or do you have plenty of time?

SS: Well, yes, there were lots of times I had to decide what I was going to do that day.

CG: I see, but you can adjust thought too. The main thing is I don’t want you to just barrel out through your practice and then go to a rehearsal or a job and can’t play.

SS: No, I can’t do that.

CG: No. On the days you have those things you just take ah, on the day’s you’re working or when you’re playing you stay right in the A, B, and C and only do that what’s going to make you feel good. Remember always, the job is the important.

SS: Yeah.
CG: Ok, now let’s then we’ll hear it double tongued. SS: PLAYS
CG: Alright, now let me hear it as written.
CG: Alright, now then uh, tongue two and slur two. SS: PLAYS
CG: OK, now model A at the bottom of the page. SS: PLAYS
CG: Ok, now model B.
CG: OK, now model uh..
SS: C?
CG: D.
SS: All slurred is what you want, right? We just did B. CG: Oh, we did B?
SS: (affirms she did B)

CG: Oh, we did B. Oh, alright, no. Now slur three, tongue one. SS: PLAYS
CG: No, you’re doing two.

CG: Ok, now model C.
CG: Now then, slur two at a time. SS: PLAYS
CG: Alright now, model C.

CG: Ok. Alright, now I left one off there, that should have been incorporated with, when you did the second page. When you did 4,5 and 6. With that, you’ll do 11. Turn over to 11 now. Right, now that’s the same type of thing. Let me hear that K modified starting on A#. Tee Tee Tee, like that.

CG: When you get to the end kick the top note. SS: PLAYS

CG: Ok, and you’ll use those same models. Alright, let’s go ahead with number 10 and let me hear it K tongue modified, Tee Taw Tee Taw Taw. Now, you go down seven and back up, he only goes six.


CG: Alright, now let me hear it double.


CG: That’s good. I’m trying to pace you because by the time we do it all you’ll feel tired. Alright let me hear it now slur two, Tee Aww Tee Aww Tee Aww.

CG: Ok, now let’s go slur the alternate two. That would be Taw Taw Eee Taw Eee Tee Aww. SS: PLAYS

CG: Alright, now 12 through 18 is one exercise. Now you must make the repeat. Let me hear it K modified on the first one. Light on the bottom notes and the top, stronger.

CG: Ok, rest a minute. Always get the horn off, Susan, then you’re not wasting yourself. CG: Ok, now the next one, tongue 1, slur 2.
CG: Ok, now the next one, slur 2, tongue 1.
CG: Ok, now the next one, slur 3.
CG: Now slur all, as written.
CG: Do the next one as written.
SS: When you said all slurred I should have played no tongue after the first note, right? CG: What was that again?
SS: You said, all slurred and I just played 3, 3 slurred.
CG: Oh you did 3?
SS: I should have done the whole thing.
CG: Right, yah.

CG: Now when you get some of these...soon as you get down I’ve got nine models and stuff like that, you MAY have to split them up a little bit over the days, you know. Don’t try to cram, if you get too tired.

CG: For speed and repetitions. Alright, now I think that’s two weeks. I think I’ll leave you on that for another two weeks and let you get kind of settled in on it. You know. You just do it enough times, pretty soon it starts coming.

SS: I’m in no hurry.

CG: Ok, now the following week, turn over, or the following lesson and we’ll do 20 through 23. Now take this this is Taw Hee, right. So take it in a two. Let me have that, I didn’t mark it. You do these too slow and they don’t do you any good. Ok, take it about Taw Hee, Taw Hee, Taw Hee, Taw. There’re strictly tongue level accuracy studies. Ok?


CG: Right, and you keep your eye on that tongue all the time. He he... Alright, now that one is where you go Taw HEE, right because you kick. Let the air do the work. Always remember, the air saves the lip. Alright now, the next one is very easy because now you don’t have to kick it. Tee Aww, Tee Aww, ok?


CG: It really helps you a lot. You hear what you see and that helps. A lot of trumpet players, they don’t hear it and that’s why they keep flipping, missing notes. If you’re going to position it, you’ve got to hear it. Alright, now then along with that, let’s go on to the next one. Taw Eee, Taw Eee, like that.


CG: Very good. Alright now, the next one in an easy two, Taw Hee, Tee Aww, Taw Hee, Tee. Ok?



CG: Ok, you work it all out. Ok, the following lesson, 24 and 25. They’re exactly the same, 25 is a half a step under 24. Let me hear 24, K modified...Tee Taw Taw Taw Tee...and you can speed these up as they get easier.

SS: It has piano marked. Do I observe the dynamic or just light?
CG: Yeah, that’s what it indicates. It’s light on the bottom and strong on the top. SS: PLAYS
CG: Right, ok? Now let me hear it double.
SS: This should be down seven steps too? No!
CG: No, no this will be just as written.
CG: Ok. Now let me hear it slur 2 at a time.
SS: Would you also put a...slur?
CG: I would. It’s cleaner. Not near as clumsy either.
SS: That’s right.

CG: Alright?


CG: Really good, ok now four at a time. Let’s go on with 25 and do 4 at a time.


CG: Are you doing it four at time or three, as written? Tee Aww Aww, Tee Aww Aww.

SS: Yeah.

CG: A little more attack.

SS: Alright. PLAYS

CG: Right! Ok. Now keep that chest up. Your chest was down a little bit on the end. You felt that?

SS: Yeah.
CG: Alright, now as written. SS: PLAYS

CG: Yeah, ok. Now you do 24 with those models and then 25 with those models. That’s all the same. Ok? Now then, 26 will be the next lesson. Let me hear it tongued. Now some of these you have to finger, some are harmonic fingering. Let’s try it.

SS: It’s starts like on the F sharp or G flat or...
CG: No, these’ll be as written.
SS: See how conditioned I am.
CG: Yeah, boy you remember. That’s a good thing. Ok. SS: And did you say tongued.

CG: K modified.
CG: Anytime, you get that horn off.
SS: ...the lips.
CG: You just get a little tired all over.
SS: I guess, it just feels like uh...
CG: Well you take it off then just to say “just for a second” take a big breath and start again. SS: Just feels like I need a breath but I’m not uh...

CG: Replenish the air is what you need.

SS: Ok.

CG: And then the next thing is you get a little faster and lighter’ll go all the way easily.

SS: Ok.

CG: Alright, now you do the same models on that one.

SS: Could I ask you a question?

CG: Yes.

SS: Ok, so that feeling was, I guess maybe not getting enough air back in or there’s too much stale air inside?

CG: That’s what it is, yeah, and at the same time you tend to get a little hyperventilated and the air gets old and you’ve got to get rid of it and replenish it. In time you won’t have it until you get to real extremes. But you may have it on a lot of these right now. Don’t worry about it. Just stop, comfortably take another breath and then go ahead.

SS: I don’t feel tired.
CG: No.
SS: The lip does not feel tired.
CG: That’s great!
SS: And the tongue really doesn’t feel that tired.

CG: Yeah, you just keep getting more and more and more and more, like...did you ever wake up in the middle of the night and feel like you got too much air? I used to practice on breathing so much. Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night I think, I can’t get rid of this air, you know. And sometimes I even have to get up and walk downstairs and then back up again and then I’d be alright.

SS: Maybe that’s what it is.

CG: Alright, now then, the following lesson. Turn over to 27. Now we have the same situation again and the first line there just goes back and forth and so does the second. And so you can do it many more times than is written if you feel that it’s helping you, see. And keep it in a two. Taw Hee. I didn’t mark that two either, did I? (WRITES IN SUSAN’S BOOK)

Ok, let’s try that now. Taw Hee, Taw Hee. SS: PLAYS

CG: Now anytime you want to play your own [trumpet], go ahead. You don’t have to play it [CG Selmer] but if you want to, go ahead.

SS: It’s much lighter.

CG: Yeah, it is lighter. Ok, now the next one. The same idea...Taw Hee Eee Aww, Taw Hee Eee Aww. Ok.


CG: Now were you slurring all or...?

SS: I slurred four.

CG: Yeah. A little more attack that in the lower. Ok, second valve. Uh, you’ll hear it on your tape. It doesn’t quite come through with enough attack.

SS: Ok.
CG: Enough definition, see. Ok.


CG: Ok. You go all the way. This is the only place in the book where he wrote seven positions. Hehe. The only one. Ok, now then, the following week, what was that 27 and 28?

SS: Yes.

CG: Alright now, the following week 29 and 30. Now 29 is the old friend again but this time it’s strictly for speed. Now take it about as fast as you can now and still make it.


CG: Now let’s go back and see if we can push it just a little. SINGS FASTER.


CG: Yeah! That’s right. So you push, push, push. Alright.

SS: How about the uh...

CG: That’s alright, that’s alright. Leave it.

SS: Doesn’t matter?

CG: You have to be a little careless when you start gaining speed.

SS: Alright, well.

CG: So, in other words, be a little careless because you’re doing it for speed. Otherwise you’d always stay slow, see.

SS: Yeah, alright.
CG: And then once you get the speed, alright now you can work on getting it accurate again. SS: Trying to be clean, you know.

CG: Yeah, right. Ok, now then, 30. First of all I want you to go all the way through it with absolute scale fingers. Kick the top note. SINGS. Like that.

SS: Now when you say scale, you mean regular? CG: Regular. Ones and twos and no alternates. SS: Ok. And slur as printed?
CG: Yeah, slur as marked, yep.


CG: Good.


CG: Yeah! Ok, alright. Now we'll go back and do it again with the alternates. All the pencils.


CG: So 29 and 30, work them out and then put speed on those, especially 29. Alright now, turn the page. And this one is in two. SINGS. Breath. Like that.

CG: Right, and you go all the way and be sure to go seven. SS: Ok.

CG: Alright. Ok, I’ll mark this. Uh, turn back and mark that other one, uh, before at both fingerings. Uh, did you ever have a student, Susan, that complained about, couldn’t keep the air from coming through his nose?

SS: Well, sometimes but uh, sometimes they’re not aware of it either. CG: Yeah, and here’s what they’re doing when that happens.
SS: Ok.
CG: Because you see, the nasal passage comes in right about here... SS: Mm hmm.

CG: ...and when this blocks off, it’s going to go somewhere. So that will generally tell you what’s happening.

SS: Very good. CG: Ok?
SS: Yeah.

CG: Took me a long time before I found that out. Kids would come in, “I can’t keep that air from going through my nose.” They were just doing it the wrong way. Alright, now then, the next line. Turn the page.

SS: Right.

CG: And this one is 32. This one is, the line is the exercise. If you need the air, take it where he says and go down seven positions.

CG: And you go down seven positions. Did you ever hear any of these Staigers recordings? SS: I don’t know if Bob has any.
CG: He’s a phenomenal player.
SS: I may have heard some...

CG: He had a Carnival of Venice that was just gorgeous. He had, I think, the best of the variants. SINGS. Oh, it was gorgeous. And then he had one on the other side, Napoli, that was equally as good. Now I don’t know whether he did any others or not. Ok, now then, the following lesson, you’ll do 33 and 34. Now 33, let’s try it first, with the fingers that are there. It goes SINGS...and that kick, see...SINGS. Ok.


CG: This is for speed and repetitions. So eventually I want it...SINGS. Like that, see. Work it up gradually. It won’t happen all at once and it won’t happen just in your lesson. You’ll have to keep reviewing and reviewing. Let me see if you can pick it up now. SINGS. About like that.


CG: That’s pretty darn good the first time over it. Alright, uh, I can tell you, it’s easy to see why you’ve been principal trumpet in an orchestra for so long, because you play so smoothly over what the average player plays. It’s very notable. And you’re going to do even more. Alright, now with that also for speed is the next one. Now these are all diminished chords. I want you to take each one by itself. Don’t play the whole thing yet and go over it and over it until you have SINGS FAST. Like that. When you get each one up like that, then you put that whole exercise together. Let’s try it, first one.


CG: Mm hmm, and you keep all the way through it like that and then you put them all together. Ok, that’s enough of that. That finishes that book. And it’ll take you 38 weeks to do that. By that time you should have it pretty darn well.

SS: Laughs.
CG: Ok, now I want you to study that over tonight. Make sure you understand everything on it. SS: Alright. You see I’ve gotten over my shyness about asking questions.

CG: Hehehe, you ask all you want. That’s what you’re here for. Ok, I’ll give you just a little rest while I write some things here.

SS: Is the first horn off the line.
CG: That was the very first one, yep. SS: I see 001.

CG: Yep and I had guys that have been waiting a long time, like a year or more for them and they paid me the money, a good deposit on it for a low number. And I did, I got ten of the low numbers. Some of them, well let’s see, I got 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. I’ve got 10 yeah. And I’ve got 12 and 19. Those are pretty low numbers. Someday those will be worth something.

SS: That’s true.
CG: Like you can’t find any horn today that has the number 2 or 3 on it. SS: That’s right.
CG: Ok, let me see. I’ll keep going here. You take a rest.
SS: I see some cases over here.

CG: Yeah, that’s three of them just came in. I hope that they...I have about three or four more coming and that’s it as far as I’m concerned. Because I still have to put them through a store. I can’t sell them.

SS: Oh, really.

CG: They won’t let me sell them. And I’ll tell you why that is, is because the dealers would figure I was cutting under them, you know.

SS: Mm hmm.
CG: So, it’s just as well. That way I don’t have to make excuses either.

SS: If the shoe were on my foot I would probably try to get the student a break, you know. I would tend to do that.

CG: Well that’s what you try to do, you know. You want to help the student out, see. But I’ve got, like Zep over here, Zep’s Music. He can get them just a cheap as I could. Like what do they run? Same as Bach out here on the west coast, it’s $760 in brass and Zep gives them to them for $536. So you can’t beat that.

SS: Yeah, that’s very good.
CG: And I guess Giardinelli and...they’re about the same discount prices. SS: Giardinelli is very good...
CG: Yep.

SS: ...with everyone. Doesn’t matter if you are a student or a professional. They give you 30 or 40 percent.

CG: I understand he’s retiring. I hate to see that. I like him and he really knows the business, you know.

SS: Yes, he does. I hope he keeps his finger in the pie, as they say. CG: I do too.
SS: Mrs. Gordon make the trip with you?
CG: No, she’s up at the lake.

SS: Uh huh.

CG: Her sister’s husband died last week so, uh, she went up and she came back with. She’s tired and that’s an emotional strain you know.

SS: Oh sure.

CG: Poor guy he’s...uh...she came walking in the front room, walked right by him, he’s laying on the floor, dead. Didn’t even see him. He was watching television and just had a heart attack.

SS: That’s sad. On the other hand I’d rather personally go quickly.

CG: Yeah, it’s better for him. That’s when I had mine...the operation, I figured well, if I don’t make it, I won’t ever know it, you know, and I’m not suffering any so. I was pretty uncomfortable.

SS: Are you back to full...

CG: I’m not taking ever that much. They won’t let me do that. I’ve got four days is about the longest I do. San Francisco is the heaviest. I do seven a day there but I used to do fourteen a day. I was doing really too much. You know what that is, fourteen students a day. I used to just...the last few lessons I just could hardly stand it. Couldn’t wait to get done.

SS: That’s too much.
CG: Yeah.
SS: You should have an assistant.

CG: Yeah well, I’ve tried that too. It doesn’t work out quite the same. Carl Leach would be the best one. He really understands it and is doing so well but he’s in Vegas now so. And Dave Evans also but he’s got his own schedule. They all tried to talk me into stop teaching entirely. I said I’m not going to retire. That’s no way to stay alive.

SS: inaudible

CG: Yeah, but I’ve cut down. Like I take in San Francisco, I take three in the morning and I take a two-hour break and have lunch and rest a while and then I do four and I don’t feel it too much. I feel pretty good. I’m done at six o’clock that way. At least that’s normal men’s hours.

SS: And is [Big] Bear Lake close enough to San Francisco or do you have to go in San Francisco?

CG: No I...uh, it’s actually San Mateo and the hotel is about a mile and a quarter from the shop so I do that for my walk. I get up in the morning and I walk there. And then I have a student drive me back to the hotel. Then when I go back in the afternoon I walk again. So that gives me two and a half miles.

SS: That’s good.
CG: So I have to do that anyways. Works out good. SS: You know, I think Ghitalla had a bypass surgery. CG: Yes, how’s he doing?

SS: Very well. Our principal horn went to a, well, was in charge of the brass part of the music camp and Ghitalla came to one part, first half, three weeks and then Nagel came the last three weeks. And he said that uh, Ghitalla said he felt, actually the best he’d felt in years.

CG: No kidding. How long has it been since his? SS: Ok. I think last fall. Almost a year now.

CG: Yeah. I guess it takes a year. Now I’ve only been...I’m just over four months and boy I have my bad days where I’m just wasted. And depression sets in for some reason or other. I think I said, mental outlook is part of it. Not [the] outlook of anything around you just, you just, uh, feel depressed for no reason.

SS: He said that uh, or as he told Roland that the exercise is a very important part. CG: Yeah. You know what he’s doing?

SS: I’s what was related to me, I think a cycle, maybe a stationary cycle, exercise bike. Uh, for thirty minutes he has to have his heart beat up to about 140 or something like that, for 30 minutes.

CG: Yeah, I had that in therapy for eight weeks afterwards and then they said just make sure you walk every day. So, but I, of course, I practice every day too so that helps. And then I do the exercises, they gave me about 20 minutes of exercises right after I came out of the hospital. These kinds of things, you know, for your...arm and lift legs and stuff. Most of them stop that but I haven’t. I’ve increased it. So I do that and the walking, my practicing. So that should hold me. We’ll see after a year how I feel.

Alright, now let’s see. What am I going to do with you now. This is uh, about 6:30 and an hour to go. We’ve got uh, three hours in tomorrow. That’s all we can do here at the moment.

SS: I have a flight on Tuesday at 2:30.

CG: 2:30 you have to leave, eh? Alright tomorrow I’m going to take you late in the afternoon, 5 o’clock. And we’ll go 5,6, and 7. And then Tuesday, well, we’ll finish up. We’ll take you 10 in the morning and do 10,11, and 12 and that would still give you time to get if we need all the three hours we’ll have it. We may not need it all because we got clear through that book today. Alright, let’s take the other one that’s going to be little involved.

SS: You said 5 tomorrow, right?

CG: Yep. 5 tomorrow and 10am the next day. Wait on the 10am though but put it tentatively because if we’re not going to need all that time I could take you at 11.

SS: Sure.

CG: We’ll see how much we’re going to do. Alright now let’s take page 19.

SS: This is part one isn’t it?

CG: Uh huh.

SS: Ok. You know, I probably would not have brought part one anyway. I just would have brought part two.

CG: Oh, you just have part two. I’m glad we did that. Alright now, next...26 there. See how much marking I have to do, there’s mistakes and everything there, so. Now we’ll start on line 2 and we’re going make this uh...we’re really going to help work on this tongue, now, the K modified. Let me hear it tongued, very metronomic, about Tee Taw, Tee Taw. About like that. K modified.

CG: Alright, continue down 7 positions.
CG: Ok, now go back to the top and slur them all.
CG: Ok. You rest a little and now line 2, K modified.
SS: Did you want to turn your air conditioner up a little bit, I mean. CG: You getting warm?
SS: Getting to be a little cool.
CG: Oh, you’re too cool now.
SS: Yeah.
CG: Ok. Yeah, that’s not comfortable.
SS: Thank you. The horn never gets warm.

CG: I keep it pretty cool, for some strange reason, in here. I like it cold, I guess, when I’m practicing, you know. But I wear a sweater, you notice, when I’m sitting here. Alright.


CG: Alright. You rest a couple of seconds and then go back up and slur them all. Let’s hear that now.


CG: Ok, now let’s take a look at line 4. Now, let me show you here why that is botched up. That’s a pretty old book. Now, come here and I’ll show you right here. You see, always remember, these notes never change order. Now the had it wrong see. SINGS. Alright, let me hear 4 now.


CG: Very good. Ok.


CG: Alright, now let’s hear those slurred.


CG: What’d you do about practicing for the last couple of days? What did you practice?

SS: I brought a Whisper mute.

CG: Did that bother you afterwards?

SS: Oh, not too much. Usually at the hall I warm up with a Whisper mute. Spare the poor string players in front of me.

CG: Yeah. Alright, now let’s go on now with line 5. Let me hear that tongued. SS: PLAYS, STOPS, SINGS.

CG: Right, he’s got it fixed up so that you have to get the most awkward ones. Like it’ll have E and C will want to come out. Then it’ll have C and E will want to come out.


CG: Yeah, and on these, Susan, you make sure, don’t you give yourself a quarter. You make sure they’re absolutely accurate all the time. And this’ll do a lot for you but if you’re sloppy with them your accuracy still won’t come. Alright, let me the same one, go back to the top, let me hear it slurred.

CG: Right. Feel what the tongue’s doing?
SS: Yep. Uh huh. I don’t know if it was the tongue or mind I had to get in gear.

CG: Hehehe. Pretty soon you can’ won’t be able to divorce it, you know. You’ll always see that tongue. Ok, let me hear the second position.


CG: Ok, and you go down 7 positions. Alright, let me hear the 6th one now. Now it turns around the other way. Let me hear it K modified.

CG: Ok.
SS: Somehow it seems easier.
CG: Hehehe. Ok, now then you go all the way tongued right? Now let me hear it slurred. SS: PLAYS. I have to go buy some more rings for couple of pages.

CG: Of course you can take uh...well, I was going to say you can take all the last ones out and put them away. But you’re not turning them over anyway. But on your time you come out I want you to bring them both though because I want to see everything we’ve covered. You know.

SS: Right. You have this down to a fine science.
CG: Yeah, over the years it’s come about, hehe, through necessity more than anything. SS: Hehehe.

CG: Ok, now the way you’re going to do that, that will not start until the third sheet. And you will do lines 2 and 3 for the first week. That’s all because they get tiring if you do too much. The second week you do lines 2 through 4. The next week you’ll do 2 through 5 and the next week, 2 through 6. Seven tongued and seven slurred on each line. Now if it gets too much, when you get all of those, then just do a couple at a time. So drop off the first one but that first one gets you into it very nicely. Ok.

SS: And skip 1, number 1.

CG: Yeah 1, we did that in the K modified exercise last time. Ok. Now turn to page 24. Now we have the same situation. The only thing, you’ll notice, they’re all on the first valve and the reason for that is that when he wrote this book he set it up in lessons. And on this particular lesson he was working in the key of Bb so everything was on the first valve.

SS: Ok.

CG: You start it up a tone and go seven positions on each one. Let’s try the first one now which is exactly the same as the first one you just did. And that’s fine. It gets us into it. Let me hear it K modified.

CG: Alright, you go down seven tongued, seven slurred. Now the next line. SS: PLAYS

CG: Good. Feel the tongue?
SS: Mm hmm.
CG: Ok, you go down seven tongued and seven slurred. Alright, now the next one. SS: PLAYS
CG: Mm hmm, seven tongued, seven slurred. Now the next one.
CG: Yeah, that’s alright. Either way.
SS: Ok.

CG: Better do it as written, though. That’s the hardest. Ok now, seven tongued and seven slurred. Now the next line is a repeat of one you did on the other one and that’s alright because it’s...going to be the start also. Let me hear that one.


CG: Right, ok. Seven tongued, seven slurred. Now that gets us ready for the next line which is the same thing, up an interval.


CG: Alright, ok. Seven tongued, seven slurred. Now the next one is the same exercise but are wider intervals. Never mind the pencil.


CG: Make sure the top one is the strongest. Let me hear that one slurred.


CG: Alright. And that’s where you need that kick again, see. Let the air do the work. Ok, seven tongued, seven slurred. Now the last line, I think it’s the last one isn’t it?

SS: Yep.

CG: Alright now that’s the same type turned upside down. And now you go back and have to get the C and of course, the E is going to want to come out. Let me hear that tongued.

CG: I’m sorry. It’s the E on this one right? SS: Yeah.

CG: Yeah, the C on the other one. I had it backwards. First mistake I ever made in my life, hehehe, ok.


CG: Seven tongued, seven slurred. Now the way you’re going to do this one will be a little different. TAPE ENDS.

2:00:04 NEW TAPE

SS: Maybe I’ll start a new book or a new phase and I think, boy what did you say, and right back...

CG: Right and that’s the whole thing. When you’re doing a book, no matter whose it is, like, Clarke pounded this into me so strong. Like when we were doing Saint-Jacome’s, he said, “get the sense of what he meant by it.” So many guys just get it, they just go through exercises; they never get any good out of it. Then pretty soon they put the book down. I'm not going to let you put this book down until we’ve covered everything in it.

Like, I told you what Herseth said. He was still trying to get through the second half of Saint- Jacome’s (LAUGHS).

SS: Hahaha, I know how he feels.

CG: Ok, now then, the last line. No, we’re only, uh, next to the last line. Which one did you just do?

SS: I did number five, so...

CG: Ok, six.


CG: Very well done. Ok, now the way we’re doing this one, and it’s written here, you do lines 1,2, and 3 for the first week. The second week 4,5, and 6.

SS: Right.
CG: Now turn over to page 68. There you go. Alright, now let me hear line 1, tongued. SS: PLAYS

CG: Alright, so many plays would say, “No, I don’t need that low.” But you do need it, see. Especially with the K modified. Alright, now you go down seven tongued, seven slurred. Now let me hear line 2.

SS: All you have to do is try to play down to the F sharp and you know you need it.

CG: That’s right. Even though a lot of the writers left it off. That’s why they left it off you know. And that, by the same reason, is why it should have been on.

SS: Yeah, that’s right. Definitely. CG: Ok.


CG: Alright. I’ve got another album coming out pretty soon. I’ll try and get one off to you too.

SS: Let me pay you for it.

CG: No, there’s two more coming.

SS: Well, you know, you need your money too. Tell me how much it is or include it in this lesson or something.

CG: Well, I wouldn’t let you pay retail for it anyway. I mean, I don’t have to make money on your [inaudible]. Alright, next one.


CG: Ok, alright now make sure you take a little breath between each one. Always remember Susan, we’re not practicing to get tired. Remember that. And that’s such an erroneous idea. Everybody thinks you’ve got to practice and get really beat, you know. You don’t. You never have to get tired, really. You don’t tire very rapidly anyway, either. Pretty good. That’s because you play correct. Alright, now the next one.


CG: Ok, alright. Let me hear the next line now.


CG: Ok, now the next one.


CG: Ok, now we’ll see what you do, hehe, on the next one.


CG: Ok, now what line was that?

SS: Seven.

CG: Ok, now 8.


CG: Now that’s tricky. And of course, whenever you’re in trouble, slow down. Try that once more.

CG: Very good. Let me hear that one slurred. SS: PLAYS

CG: Alright now, let’s see Susan, the way we’re going to do that, you’ll start uh, the first week you’ll do lines 1 and 2. The second week 3 and 4. The next week 5 and 6. Then the fourth 233k 7 and 8. Seven lounged, seven slurred on each line. Alright, now turn to page 81.

SS: Never all of them together though right? Never all seven together.

CG: No, it would be too much. I’m trying to watch, like that’s why I asked you how the practice was and so forth with your schedule. You’re playing how much a week.

SS: In terms of hours?
CG: No, like do you play with the symphony every day or... SS: Oh, every day but Monday.
CG: Is that right?
SS: Yeah.

CG: Yeah, well then I’ve got to watch it because boy, I’d load you up so much that you’d kill yourself, you know. It’s so interesting when you get someone rather well that you want to keep piling on and that’s dangerous. You know, it took me a lot of years to learn that and all teachers should think of that. It’s better to give a little too little than to give too much.

SS: That’s a good point.

CG: It’s like putting, uh, you have a good fire going. Remember the old kitchen stove? You probably don’t know it. You have a good fire going and you put too much coal on it and smother it, see. And that’s just what you can do with this.

SS: We had a coal stove in the basement when I was growing up. CG: Yeah?
SS: So I know a little bit.
CG: It’s not quite far enough back yet. (LAUGHS)


CG: Alright, now. We come to these [Saint-Jacome’s page 81]. Now these will only be one a week. Let me hear the first one tongued.


CG: Good. Be sure to kick the top, let the air do the work. Watch your tongue. Alright, let me hear the second valve. We’ll continue down on this one.

CG: Ok. Go back to the first one and let me hear it slurred. SS: PLAYS

CG: Mm hmm, now let me hear line 2, tongued.
CG: Do you feel that tongue right up front?
SS: Yes. Especially when you remind me to watch it. Makes it a whole lot easier. CG: Yep, ok. Line 3 now.

CG: Right. You can see why I only put one a week. SS: Mm hmm.

CG: Because these get too heavy rapidly without you realizing it, see. Alright, now the last one, number 4. Now you keep yourself, your support and everything, set for your top one and then just light on the bottom.


CG: Yeah. Anytime that starts, it won’t stop. It’s a chain reaction. Take it off and then pick it up. Let’s do it once more.


CG: Very, good. Very good. Rest a minute and let me hear it slurred. Hehehe.

SS: It’ll take a minute to find the right notch or something, right through.

CG: That’s right, you do. You just have to find that right spot. Ok.


CG: Ok. Alright now, at that point, that finishes those. Now we will jump over into the other one and pick up where you were. And that’ll be page 160. Alright now.

SS: And the second variant, K tongue, single tongue.
CG: Third exercise. You were just one the second variant I think.
SS: I don’t think I got through the models. Do you want the models?

CG: Well you can uh, I don’t even start Saint-Jacome’s in this for two whole lessons so if you want to catch up the models to where you are that’ll be fine. Let’s here, then, the third exercise. Just take it up to the first half. You don’t have to do it all. Do it K modified for now.


CG: Alright, now I’m not going to select your models for you anymore because I won’t have to. You just break your models up so that you get them done in the time. Alright, let me hear now, the fourth exercise. Now on these too, by the time you get to these, first of all get your

accuracy and then start...and I want to hear you get some speed on it. Taw Tee, Taw Tee, Taw Tee.


CG: That’s it. Now you keep on and work the speed on all the models but keep your accuracy. Otherwise we’re never going to get off the ground in speed.

SS: Ok, how about the clarity though.
CG: The which?
SS: The clarity. I am starting to hit the notes in the middle. CG: On the slurs you mean?
SS: Mm hmm.

CG: Ah, don’t worry about that because you’re not going to get that out of there until the tongue gets it out for you anyway. And if you try and think, “Oh, I’ve got to get that”, first thing you know, all it’s going to be is you’re going to worry and nothing’s going to happen.

SS: Yeah, forget it.

CG: Right, it’ll come out. Alright now, the variant.


CG: Now, you won’t get all of them at the same rate of speed because some of them are going to be more difficult, see.

SS: Yeah.

CG: Alright, all the models, especially that number 3, the third model. You keep that chest up, watch your tongue, and keep the low note light. Let me hear it just a little bit. Change all the Goldsmith’s to Cs.

SS: All the Gs to Cs.
CG: Yeah, the top note.
SS: You said model 3.
CG: Model 3. Which one do you want?
SS: Model 3 is a low one here.
CG: Oh, I’m looking at the wrong one.
SS: This one.
CG: Uh yeah.
SS: Ok now, you said “change all the Gs to C. Alright, that makes sense. Alright, sorry.

CG: Ok.
CG: Mostly that’s tongued.
SS: Mm hmm.
CG: Keep the bottom ones light. Once more.
CG: That’s the idea. So you’re not going to do that one fast for a while. Alright. SS: That may be my tempo a year from now.

CG: Hehehe. Ok, now the 5th exercise. Now actually, you have this at home. The only markings I would be putting on it is the stamps you got on there so, maybe you don’t have to buy the second...

SS: Ok, so you’re not really going to be adding any marks to the second part, just the first part.

CG: Right, right, uh huh. And when you come back next time I can stamp it up to where you are. The main thing, now maybe you can’t get part one. You might have to get both parts.

SS: Well, it’s always good to have an extra copy.

CG: Yeah, it is. So I wouldn’t worry about it. Ok, let’s hear this one K modified.


CG: Ok, now let me hear the first variant.


CG: Ok, now let me hear the second variant. Now on the second variant, each section turns around. SINGS


CG: Now bring it over here and I’ll show you models. This one is a little involved. Now then this is no trouble. Here you put the E ahead of each one. SINGS...right?

SS: Mm hmm.

CG: And you’ve got two models on them. Now, here’s what you were doing there. SINGS... right?

SS: Yes.

CG: Then you add one above and back. SINGS EXAMPLE. Now you do it always K modified first and on this model I would do it single tongue to get the gist of it first. Of course that’ll be on your tape so that’s good. That’s model 3 of the 2nd variant on page 163. Now notice it says

here TTK TTK TT...Now TTK TTK. Now when over here it goes TKT TKT. So everything to get you all screwed up see.

SS: Ok. So uh, alternate like they have it? Alternate...
CG: Just as it is. Yeah.
SS: As it is. I mean, don’t go through and play this model always.

CG: No, no and that’s where he’s got it see. It’s always the low one he’s got opposite. And the upper one is TTK again, see. It’s very awkward and you’ll do it very slow. If you get it down, you’ll be way ahead of the average player. Most of them, I know, they finally just...they do it a little bit and then they forget it, see. And it’s awfully good training for your thinking as well as the tongue.

SS: Well, we use some of this as a section. We’ll use some of that.

CG: That’s good. Uh huh. And then you can also work up so that you double tongue on the triplets. TTK TKT. That’s very fast really. And you can change so quickly from double to triple.

SS: Yes, right.

CG: Alright, let’s go on now with the 6th. This is why it gets easy after a while and people come up and say, players say too, “Gee, how do you do that?” Well, just through hour of those hard little things, you know. Then it falls into place. Alright now, this one is a little different idea. Let me hear at uh...let’s tongue it first.


CG: Yeah, you see, that’s what it is. Now look at your models. The first one is easy to understand. Now then, the next one is straight triple, is it on it?

SS: Yes.

CG: And the last one, you triple each note. Ok, and that’s all there is to that one. Now turn over to the 7th exercise. Now, this is very valuable and is not done near enough, I don’t think in exercise books or anything. It’s down instead of up.

SS: Yes.

CG: Let’s try it K-modified.


CG: Yeah, ok. They’re tiring too, so you rest often. Alright, get all the models with it. Now notice, you’ve got an extra model on the end of each on that first line there.

SS: Two up here.
CG: Uh, no, the next line. They’ve got a double tongue model on the end. SS: I see.

CG: Let me see that a minute. That’s the last one but this doesn’t gel out so next you’ll do the variant, right? And then next, you’ll do the 8th exercise...and of course that’s with the models. There’s no sense in leaving those two off because you’ll probably have a little time anyway. Alright now, notice here, you’ve got two there and you’ve got an extra one here. You’ve got two there and you’ve got an extra one here.

SS: Ok.

CG: And this is your TKT again. Alright, let me hear this variant.

SS: As printed or...

CG: Let’s do it as it is right now, as it’s written. Of course you’ll do straight tongued too. Do everything that way, ok.

CG: Ok, now let me hear it as written. SS: PLAYS

CG: And you’ve got all those models at the top of the page then. Alright now then, the next extra one, number 8, let me hear that. Now in a case like this, you would not do SINGS 8th EXERCISE NOTES FULL VALUE, it would be SINGS IT DETACHED. Like that.


CG: Right. Let me hear your first model...SINGS.


CG: That’s a harder model than it looks. Now then, let me hear the other one at the bottom. SINGS.


CG: Yeah. Now, let me have that and I’ll show you some more fingers that are awfully good practice on your alternates. SINGS. And then you could that. Try that from the top.

CG: Good. Now try the other one.
CG: Hahahaha. Ok.
SS: You’re going to make me think, aren’t you.

CG: Ok. Now that take can turn the page if you have any time, you can turn the page. These are not really related but you might as well go over it and do it just to have it done so there’s nothing skipped, you know. SINGS 9th EXERCISE. Now the next one, you see that long trill in number 10 there?

SS: Yes.

CG: Now that isn’t that you put that in there. That’s the way the note is trilled so it’s kind of deceiving. In other words, bring it here and I’ll show you what I mean it’s...he put it in there to show you how to do the trill. This is actually on here, see.

SS: Yes, ok.

CG: So it’s...SINGS 10th EXERCISE. So that’s only and example. So many are confused though. Does that come before the note? No, it’s on that second note.

SS: So you stop the note on the D then, stop the trill on the D?
CG: Yes. SINGS. Oh, you might not. Try it. See how it feels.
CG: Yeah. I think you ran right through the bottom note, yeah. So that’s alright. SS: Uh, does it matter that I’m doing more than six.

CG: No.

SS: Ok.

CG: Up to you. As long as it comes out in time.

SS: Right, ok.

CG: And that’ll complete that whole section so we’ll that time we’ll have got a lot... that’s a really nice accomplishment, especially in conjunction with the others.

SS: Mm hmm, Mm hmm.

CG: Now on these here, unless you get the whole book, you’ll have to remember those fingers on there.

SS: Ok. That’s the 8th exercise...

CG: Uh huh. Right, then you’ve got 1 and 2 on the second E on the top line and open on the... On the bottom, you’ve got 3rd on the first E, 1 and 2 on the second and open on the third one.

SS: Third, ok.

CG: Alright. Alright, I think you’ve had about enough for today. You’ve help up really well. That’s a lot of work. And I’ll stamp all that when you get the book.

SS: You want to tell me where to go here. I’ll have all day tomorrow to... CG: Yeah, there’s a...
SS: ...find it and get lost and get found again.

CG: You better call him first to make sure they have it. Let me see, Baxter Northup should have it. Now it’s Baxter Northup. Way up in San Francisco Byron Hoyt called me here, long distance. Wanted to know if I would give him a list of everything I use so they can constantly have it in stock. Boy that’s...a whole page of everything and you go up there, they’ve got a whole section of just everything I use. And the students go in there and they always have it. I thought that was awfully nice of him.

SS: That’s great though. You know somebody will always have it and the student doesn’t have to wait.

CG: Yeah, if all the stores would do that. Ok now, you go straight down Ventura Boulevard...go down the freeway to Van Nuys.

SS: 405?

CG: No. Hollywood freeway. Straight, don’t turn on the 405 at all. Go right past the 405. You know where the freeway is up here?

SS: You talking about the Ventura free...ok. That’s 101.

CG: Yeah. Just stay right on it. You’ll cross 405. Stay right on it ’til you come to Van Nuys.

SS: Do I want to go east or...

CG: East, yeah. And when you get to Van Nuys...

SS: Is that V-A-N-I-Z-E?

CG: V-A-N, two words and then N-U-Y-S.

SS: Hehehe. I’d still be going, wouldn’t I?

CG: Yeah, right. Now Van Nuys and you get off on Van Nuys and turn right.

SS: Ok.

CG: And you go to Ventura Boulevard. Turn left on Ventura Blvd. and park wherever you can. And it’s one of the first few stores right where you park from Van Nuys, right on your right.

SS: Ok.
CG: Let me see. I can do something else for you. You got the Ventura freeway, right? SS: Mm hmm.
CG: and you’ll cross over that 405...
SS: Right.

CG: ...and that’s also Sepulveda and then, very close is Van Nuys and you get off on that, right. And you go a little ways and you get to Ventura Blvd. You make a left...and it’s one of those stores right there.

SS: Do you have an address for it?

CG: No, they’ve got a phone number. SS: I’ll call them first.

CG: Yeah, call them and make sure they have it... ?? is one that really knows what’s going on down there.

SS: Ok. Alright, I’ll tell her you sent me.
CG: That should do it.
SS: Alright, very good.
CG: And then I’ll see you tomorrow. What’d I say, 5? SS: Yes.

CG: Now I want you to take this we’ve got the heaviest stuff done. I like to get that out of the way first. Now uh, I want you to study this thoroughly. Now we’re not finished on the first two sheets you’ve got. So just study what we’ve done. Now when you get over to here, we’ve primarily done B and C all the way through. All the way clear through to the end. And let’s see here. This is start...what’s our day today.

SS: 17th...19th sorry, 19th.

CG: 19th, that’s 9/19/82, ok? And we’ll just leave that in the front of the book then.

SS: Ok great.

CG: Alright, take that with you. Now you don’t have to take all your books if you don’t want. All you need is uh...

SS: Can I lay this over here?

CG: Yeah, you can just lay them there. That’s alright. All you need to take with you today is uh, this one and...

SS: Just leave these here?
CG: Saint-Jacome. Do you want to study that or do understand that very well. SS: I understood what you had here so.
CG: Yeah, because they’re all the same idea.
SS: No problem.
CG: And this one, you understand that; where we add it to the...
SS: I could even write that out. You don’t have to Xerox it or anything.
CG: I’ve got a copy. It’s already got the whole thing there.

SS: Ok.
CG: Let me get it now so I don’t forget it.
SS: Yeah. It’s too bad that your wife couldn’t make the trip. I understand. CG: Did you see the new Arban’s?
SS: The one that Colin put out?

CG: No.....Let me show you what I did with it. Actually, I annotated it. But they did such a beautiful job. I’m just thrilled with what goes into it. There’s the ’94 and ’36 editions and then the ’82 edition with preface. Now, what I did with it, I updated all this stuff, you know. I didn’t change anything but with footnotes I explained every statement he made as to what he actually meant by those statements.

SS: Great.

CG: that nothing is changed, see. And then I have references and all that, see. And updated these things and put all this in. Now then, the things that were (and it’s in six languages too), and the things that were not, that did not apply anymore, like the use of crooks and all this, and the horns, I deleted that entirely. But, just so that some professor doesn’t make a deal out of that, which they will, in the back of the book here’s the entire original text. And I showed what, when you’re talking about the instruments what the type of horn it was and all that, as close as we could get to that far back. And that’s the horn right here, this one. I took pictures of it and used that.

SS: Are these all pitched in Bb instead of A.
CG: Yeah, those are all uh, you didn’t see those before. SS: No, this wasn’t here.

CG: This is what I use at the brass camp, and then I have more, I use at the brass camp to show how the instruments developed down through this country from uh, all the way back. This is to Claude, addressed to Claude. That was the tank that Clarke learned on. And they didn’t have all things, like there’s the Holton-Clarke. This is early King at the turn of the century. And this is a Besson at the turn of the century. And this the uh, the one in the book [Arban’s], that’s called the New York Wonder. That was America’s first fine instrument. It really was a Wonder. That’s the old Buescher at the turn of the century. This was the, literally Master Model King which developed into this one which was really, a very popular cornet. And this was the Conn Victor. Of course it was a very good cornet. That was the original tuning bell which made sense. In other words the bell came up and around. That’s a double slide on the bottom...

SS: Uh huh.

CG: ...and you tuned it with that little wheel.

SS: I see it.

CG: ...and you could tune it to absolute nth degree of that. And then you only used the slide to tune with. That was a quick change to A.

SS: Oh, I see that..??

CG: Every slide pulls. This little trigger, all slides pull. It was really a marvellous idea. Conn came of with a lot of innovations. And that’s Holton New Proportion. That was built off of ??? model. And then the Conn 22B or 2B, the Conn 2B which was their symphony model. It was the best trumpet they ever made. And that was a Besson pattern. After that they made the 2B which was the same horn scaled down with a .438. That’s pretty small. And this is a very early CG...which is not a true cornet. The true cornets, they graduated all the way. So it’s an interesting collection.

SS: It’s in good condition. That’s amazing.

CG: Yeah, some of them, I’ve uh, really the good ones I have had ‘em brought over like, not played...So they’re all playable horns. I’m looking for a Boston 3 Star or a Boston 4 Star.