Claude Gordon Brass Camp 1991 - Claude Gordon on The Tongue with Tom Brozene

Transcript Summary

More came in from Fort Howard last night. You guys want to stand up, and girls?
We've got an awfully good reputation.
Now, yesterday we talked in depth about wind power and the pedal register.
Now, has everybody got that in their mind?
Today did you do the walking and your breathing excises?
Great. How did it feel?
Tiring, huh?
But get out and do it. You noticed you had a great player out there with you today doing it too.
Frank does those things all the time, and that's why he's a great player.
Now, who can remember the first rule?
Air does the work.
Air does the work.
What is it just up?
I've got an earful.
He said air does the work.
That's right. That's right. The air does the work. He was absolutely right.
Now then, one thing I didn't mention yesterday.
When you get down into the pedal register, you do not use different fingers.
It's low octave fingering all the way through the pedal register.
Now, with the exception of French horn, they've got so many alternate fingers that it doesn't make a bit of a difference.
But on the trumpet and the trombone, the slide positions do not change in the pedal register.
In other words, we have from starting with pedal F, and you all remember where that was now, right?
Starting with pedal F, it's first valve.
First and second with the same as your low register.
Two and three E flat, one and two D, all three C sharp, and C open.
B second, B flat first, A first and second, A flat second and third.
G, one and three.
It's always the low octave fingering.
F sharp, all three.
Now the reason I mention that...
Bruce, let me have your horn, man.
It's because there is methods out using different fingers in the pedals.
But that's no good.
Because you would get so confused you couldn't play it fair.
And you'll find this in books.
It goes F, C, A, F.
Then it'll go E, B, G sharp, E.
And then D, A, F sharp, D.
Then it'll go D flat, A flat, F, D flat.
In other words, this system of fingering, I don't know where it came from,
but the last two notes of the major chord are all the same fingering.
Don't use that, it's no good.
Yet you'll find that a lot, and it's taught a lot.
Remember, make it simple, the low octave fingering, always.
I'm going to take a sip of this coffee.
Okay, now in your brass playing book.
Let's take a...
Today I want you to study pages 21, works as the tongue,
and study carefully over to page 26.
In fact, you can go clear to page 27.
Study clear over to page 27, and up to the heading wind control.
We'll get that tomorrow.
Have you all kept up on your studying in the book where I said every day?
All right, now today,
one of the most misunderstood subjects of brass playing.
In fact, you'll have those that tell you,
no, that's all wrong, you can't do that, it won't work.
And those are the ones that will teach you where you get high notes by squeezing your lip.
And you'll get many books that will go into depth about,
well, this has to be this, and you squeeze this, and the mouth does this.
I think Cathy can write to that a lot, can't you?
She's been through a lot of that instruction.
Okay, the subject is the tongue.
If there ever was a secret to brass playing, it's the tongue.
It's never been understood, it's never taught.
In fact, as I just mentioned, lots of times it's put down.
No, that's no good.
You're never going to play easily if you don't get the control of that tongue.
Now, Clark brought it out.
Liberati brought it out.
All of the greats, that is the way they played.
They all played the same way.
I don't care what they looked like outside,
or whether the horn pointed this way, this way, this way.
They played over here or here.
Whatever they looked like was irrelevant.
Inside the mouth, what was happening is the same.
That's why they were able to accomplish what everybody thought was amazing feats.
And whether they know it today or not,
the virtuosos that are doing close to what these old timers did,
they're doing it the same way.
And remember what I brought out a Sunday night.
There's only one right way.
And yet you'll hear so much talk about,
well, that's okay, that's right for you.
And you do what's right for you.
That's baloney.
There's one way.
And if you get that in your head and develop it,
then it's going to work and work very easy.
Did you ever notice that every one of the great virtuosos,
even the virtuosos today, they play easy.
They're not straining.
And yet you see these that talk about all these things,
boy, they're out there just working their head off and getting nowhere.
Did you notice Dave Evans last night?
He played a beautiful concert, just an excellent concert.
Did you notice there was no strain, was there?
No strain at all.
But I wonder if you all noticed his chest.
One thing that pleased me very much,
that chest of his never came down.
It was like this all the time he played.
And he made some amazing jumps, fast and very easy.
He didn't always do that.
A few years ago, I mean, sometime during the camp,
I wanted to tell you a story when I first saw him and how he was doing.
But I thought that was very indicative.
I hope you all noticed that.
And also it gave him a lot of poise.
You notice he didn't act nervous or winded.
This is hard.
That chest was up all the time.
Now what was happening in his mouth?
Exactly the same as all fine players.
Now I've seen players that, like I had, well Bobby O'Donnell came in one time.
I don't know, a lot of you have heard Bobby Evans.
And he's one of the foremost students I ever had.
And a phenomenal player.
They asked him one time, what can I write for you?
I want to write some solos.
And he said, well, what do you mean, what can you write?
He says, well, how high, how low, how technical?
He says, well, from penalty to double C, write whatever you want.
And that's what they did.
And he called me one day.
He was a student years ago when he was in high school.
And he called me one day.
He said, what is this new thing you're teaching?
I said, I'm not teaching anything new.
He says, yes, you are.
What is this thing you call K-tone modifying?
He says, you never taught me that.
I said, yeah, I sure did, Bob.
He said, no, I don't know anything about that.
I said, well, can you come over?
Yeah, he said, okay, I got time.
I said, all right, come on over.
And we spent an hour.
And the way I'm going to show you today, I went through with him.
And pretty soon he says, gee, I am telling that.
I didn't know that.
He said, how come you never found it out?
I said, Bob, I didn't have to.
I said, why strap something on you that you were already doing?
He said, I didn't know I was doing it.
I said, I know you didn't.
He said, how did you know I was doing it?
I said, because the way you played, that's the only way it works.
It wouldn't work any other way.
So he said, now I'm going to have to start boxing all over.
I said, no, you're not.
You're not going to do one thing that you haven't been because he's doing it right.
And if he played, well, so did Carl H. up to double F yesterday.
But we had a trombone player that was the same way at that time.
And we had him at camp.
So on the exercise that morning, like Carl did yesterday, we had him change.
One would do one, and the next would do the other, and then one would do one.
And well, we finally got up to triple C, and they were still going to go on.
And so I said, no, that's enough.
I'm tired of it.
But that just shows you they all do it the same way.
That trombone player became very successful too.
I've lost track of it now.
But trombone's the same.
Did you ever notice?
Now bring that up on the mouth, basically.
Okay, I've got to get another sip of coffee.
In the morning, my throat gets, not radiation, my throat gets so dry.
That's why it's impossible for me to play anymore.
There's no moisture in the mouth, and so you can't play that way.
I used to demonstrate some.
But fortunately, we have videotape where I do some demonstrating.
That was, in case I forget later, the videotape, if you see up, you'll notice my hands shakes.
That was after heart surgery.
I shouldn't have been doing demonstrating.
It's the last demonstration I ever did.
And Larry always gets mad when I would pick up the horn and go to play,
because he expected to rush me off to the hospital right afterward.
But I did it.
And you'll notice that when I get my arm up, my hands shakes.
That's not vibrato or nerves.
I lost all nervousness many years ago.
But it's because even now, if I bring that up to hold the horn, that hand, it won't stay still.
Something to do with the surgery and the severing of nerves and so forth.
All right, Tom.
You got your horn, don't you?
Okay, now, the tongue is vital.
In fact, without a tongue, you couldn't play a brass instrument.
That'd be impossible.
And I'm not talking about attacks only.
I'm talking about your pitch and making the sound work.
Now, I want to try some, Tom, come up here.
I want you to...
Oh, I had another thought.
In fact, like years ago, hundreds of years ago, they had a form of torture.
They would cut your tongue out.
You've read about that.
I never will understand of one man's treatment of another.
That's just mind-boggling to me.
How they could do things like that.
But they did.
Now, if your tongue wasn't in your mouth, it would be...
Just like that.
It would be impossible to form any syllable.
Remind me about what you noticed when we discussed the tongue, Larry,
when your little son was born.
And you went in and you got curious and you went in and checked it.
Now, this is why languages sometimes play a part
in how quickly you can develop in this correct way of playing.
Now, Tom, I want you to say, ah.
Now, hold it.
Now, where's the tip of your tongue?
It's right behind the bottom teeth.
Now, let's everybody do that.
Where's the tip of your tongue?
Someone tell me.
Right behind the bottom teeth, isn't it?
That's normal.
Now, say E, Tom.
E, E, and hold it.
Where's the tip of your tongue?
Where is it?
It's still in the same place.
Let's all try that.
All right.
Someone want to tell me where's the tip of your tongue?
It's in the same place, isn't it?
Now, Tom, go A, E, A, E, A, E.
A, E, A, E, A, E.
Where's the tip of the tongue?
It's there.
It doesn't change.
Let's everybody try.
A, E, A, E, A, E, A, E, A, E, A, E.
But notice the tip is still there, isn't it?
Now, when you do this, you've got to be very honest with yourself.
Because I've had students that it would take me an hour to get them to picture where that tongue was.
And half the time, they'd say it wrong.
They'd say, oh, it's up here.
I could watch them and see what they're doing.
A, E, A, E, A.
The tongue is against the lower teeth.
Now, Tom, say A, A, A, like that.
Then you lock that tongue.
Don't let it come out of the opposition.
Hold it.
Now, while it's rigid, again, you've got to think and watch it.
While it's rigid and locked, try to say E, A, A, A, A.
Everybody try.
Now, be honest with yourself.
Keep that tongue rigid, A, A, A.
No matter how you try, it doesn't go to E, does it?
Like I said again, A, E, A, E.
What's the tongue do?
Comes right up.
So what makes that syllable change?
The movement of the tongue.
Now, you take a person and he's learning to talk.
Like you hear, after you get the baby all cleaned up,
and he's comfortable, and you put him in the crib,
and you go away, pretty soon you'll hear him.
Well, that's just contented baby just making noises.
No, he's not.
He's practicing.
He doesn't know it yet, but he's practicing.
He hears the parents say words, like no, yes,
and he hears daddy, mama, and he hears,
if he has brothers, he hears their name.
Now, he hears that, and he wants to do it, but he can't yet.
So he's laying there trying to form those words.
Before long, that tongue learns to find where that syllable is.
And he can say, what did you find out, Larry,
when you checked with the little baby?
The tip of his tongue is right behind his teeth.
You know, I've talked with a lot of speech therapists about that
because they're always working with patients after a stroke
to try and figure out how to get them speaking again,
and they find the people speak the Spanish languages.
The little kids, that's why the L's and the R's are hard
for English-speaking people because their tongues don't naturally
always stay there, but they do when they're little kids.
Right, the natural position of the tongue is like that.
Now, Arbon, over 120 years ago, Arbon mentioned this in his book,
but nobody understood it.
And of course, like I mentioned before,
everybody put their own private interpretation.
That's why you've got all these theories that have been handed down
because Arbon was the first book.
Just think of that.
How would you like to have that as your reputation?
You wrote the first authoritative book,
and today it's still one of the foremost authoritative books,
most modern book of any book.
Like you find books on the market.
This is the modern one.
There's nothing more modern than Arbon or St. Jacob.
Everything that's been written is in those two books already.
It's just a little more graduated off of those exercises.
Now, Arbon and St. Jacob, they all taught these things,
but they didn't explain them.
But you can study the exercises,
and you find that the exercises all attest to the same development
of the items we're talking about.
So we know that they were all in accord, although they didn't discuss it.
Arbon and St. Jacob were not good friends.
They were both vying for the crown at the same time,
and they both wanted the Paris Conservatoire position,
and they were like this.
And yet, what they said and taught was identical.
Now, Arbon mentioned this tongue in his book.
He said, the tongue has a to and fro motion.
Nobody understood what that meant.
But now, if you say that ah-ee, ah-ee, say that tongue.
Now, notice the tip is against the lower teeth,
and the tongue is going ah-ee, ah-ee, ah-ee.
It's up and down, too, but the basic motion is ah-ee, ah-ee.
It comes to and fro.
So that was hard for anyone to understand.
Now, it's very interesting, too, that Liberati,
now we'll hear one of his records Friday, phenomenal trumpet player.
There were some great Italian trumpet players.
Italian trumpet players, Mexican trumpet players,
they were very fast and good range,
and English trumpet players were, too,
and they still are. England's turning out a lot of good players.
That's why a lot of flying solos came out of Canada.
Boy, there was a lot of them.
There's still some up there in the recording field now that are amazing.
In fact, Maynard Ferguson came out of Canada.
He was out of Toronto, I think, wasn't he?
And it's very notable that Herbert Clark spent a lot of time in Toronto.
Boy, what an influence this man had on this business.
I wish I could have a reputation like that.
Now, I want to use the blackboard. Could we move this just a bit?
Or raise it one another?
Now, you really want to get the sense of this tone because it's vital.
Thanks, Tom.
Now, Liberati, in his book, which is a shame, is long gone.
I unfortunately have a couple pages out of the thread of it.
I don't know where I resurrected those.
But you can't find his book anymore.
If you do, you better grab it just to have it.
Now, he made a marvelous statement.
And to explain that statement, I want you to take note of this.
Now, if you looked at your tongue from the top down,
it would look something, I imagine, I don't know.
Larry, you can correct me. My artistic won't be too good.
But the tongue would look something like a skateboard.
In my mind, that's the way it looks.
Now, the tip of the tongue would be from there up, right?
But Liberati makes a very good statement.
He says, the very tip of the tongue.
Now, that would be the very tip of the tongue.
Now, here's a statement, and nobody noticed it.
They never do, because they're looking for the lip all the time.
Everybody is so lip-conscious, that's all they put their mind on.
But the thing that makes it work is what these great players mention.
The very tip.
And this is the tip area.
So he said, in his book, he said, the very tip of the tongue never,
now remember that word, never,
the very tip of the tongue never rises above the lower teeth.
Now, let that sink in.
The very tip of the tongue never rises above the lower teeth.
And yet, most of the teaching today is that the very tip of the tongue
strikes up on the upper teeth.
That's not true.
Now, Herbert Clarke, who has characteristic studies?
Do you have one over there, Bruce?
Now, Clarke brought this out, and in his way of teaching,
he didn't come out on the students and say, now you have to do it this way.
I do.
But he didn't.
He said, well, I do it this way.
Or as I remember, Clarke was one of the pioneers,
and there were many ideas fluctuating around.
But he was so far-supreme in his playing that they had to listen to it.
And he said, I do it this way.
Now, in the characteristic studies, his book, notably he says this.
He says, my own method of tonguing is rather unique.
So that shows he was doing it differently than the majority.
He says, but the results I have accomplished by diligent study and practice
has proven to be not only the easiest, but the most practical.
All right?
He says, my tongue is never rigid.
Now, some people today have a habit of saying, well, this is anchor tongue.
Destroy that word.
You never anchor your tongue anywhere.
It's a very misunderstood statement.
He said, it's never rigid.
In other words, is that the tongue?
And rests at the bottom of my mouth, the end pressed slightly.
Not rigid.
The end pressed slightly against the lower teeth.
I then produce the staccato by the center of the tongue,
striking against the roof of the mouth.
That's why he played so easily.
The tip of the tongue was on the lower teeth.
Now, not down on the bottom on the gums.
It's right at the very edge of the lower teeth.
Now, sometimes when I would play, it would be so close to the top
that it would be actually a little on top of that lower teeth.
And I'd get the vibration of the lip on my tongue,
and it would tickle so much that you'd almost stop your playing.
So it's right at the edge, the top edge of the lower teeth.
I'll never let it get down on the gum.
Well, you're also close to there.
You might feel that, but the very tip is on the edge.
Then your tongue, the teeth.
Didn't you see that?
Now, you're actually tonguing against the upper.
Actually, it's more on the upper teeth, but not with the very tip.
Now, many today that I've checked out and watched,
and they're doing it right, and they're playing that way,
they don't realize it.
Why don't they realize it?
Because the tip is a little area up there, isn't it?
But it's not the very tip.
Like you have the front end of the tongue could be called the tip.
But the very tip is that point up there.
Now then, if they're tonguing, they're used to that,
and it is in the front of the tongue, but they don't sense it as the very tip.
So they get so used to it, and because it's striking up here,
they think they're tonguing that way.
They say, oh, no, my tip of my tongue is striking against the upper teeth.
No, it isn't.
The very tip is still behind the lower teeth,
but it's right behind that very tip that's striking up on the top.
So every book I see, every book I see says that you strike up behind the upper teeth.
All right, now, if you're doing tee-tee-tee like this,
your tongue is automatically up.
Now, some will say, well, no, that cuts off the air.
You've got to keep your throat open.
Come here, Tom.
Now, if he says aw, constantly says aw,
he's not going to get a syllable move up, are you?
So by the same token, if you constantly try to play aw, aw, aw, or that throat open,
nothing's going to move.
The throat never closes.
It never does anything.
In fact, if it closed, you could choke in the night, choke to death.
The throat will never close, but the tongue will move.
So if you don't understand the purpose of the tongue and how it works,
you could shut the air off.
But I'll explain that in a minute.
Now, all you're playing is going to be in the very front of your mouth.
Step back here.
Like there's some prominent books out that will say that you say,
for high register, that you say ish, ish, ish.
No, you don't.
That's in the back of the mouth.
Tom, take, let me see, the, yeah,
the tongue moves to obtain the syllable, right?
All right, now let's take the trumpet and play me a low C,
and as, hold the C a minute, and then move up to the G.
Second line.
Ah, like that.
When he moves up, it almost sounded like he tongued it, didn't it?
It was a click in there.
Do it again.
That's the tongue coming up, like a vowel.
All right, now I want you to do it again.
And this time you say ah on the C, and you lock that tongue on that C,
and don't let it move under any condition, and while it's locked,
try to move up to that G.
Because the tongue did not come up.
That's the only thing that makes that pitch change,
just like it makes the syllable change.
That's the way you lip trill.
There's no such thing as a lip trill.
That's a misnomer.
That comes from years back when they figured the lip did everything.
Never could you move that lip fast enough to make a trill out of it.
In fact, you forget the lip, and you watch a person,
I only watched some of the students here this week,
that lip never moves when you do a trill.
Properly, it should have been called a tongue trill,
because that's what it is.
All right, now take, can you whistle, Tom?
All right, whistle.
What's your tongue doing?
Basically the same thing, staying right there behind the tip.
Now then, whistle a little more time.
All right, now lock the tongue right there.
Don't let it budge.
And while the tongue is locked, try to whistle those two notes.
Pitch won't change.
All right, now go ahead and whistle the two notes.
What's the tongue doing?
Up and down.
Without the tongue, you couldn't do any of that.
So what makes the pitch change?
The tongue.
Oh, it's the tongue.
Now, let's go a little further.
I'm going to get some coffee.
Boy, that mouth is dry today.
So is mine.
Now notice the very tip of the tongue never rises above the tip.
Now there'll be movement there.
It'll kind of back off and off.
But the tongue is always like this.
Now, take an arpeggio tongue.
A flat second space.
That's in the book.
And play the arpeggio up and knock it.
And hold the top A flat until you can picture your tongue.
Where's the tip?
It's right there on the bottom.
And lower teeth.
All right.
Now then, do it again.
And this time you hold the A flat until you can see where the tongue is.
And as soon as you see where the tongue is, knock it.
Now, it's going to be hard to hold it there because nature wants to move when you move a note.
But you hold that A flat and don't let it, don't let the tongue budge.
Knock it.
And while it's not, try to drop down to a low E flat on the first line, direct.
Not arpeggio.
Like that.
And try everything in your power.
But don't let that tongue move.
It won't move, will it?
And that's coming down.
That should come easy, shouldn't it?
But you can't go down unless that tongue moves.
You can't go up.
You can't go down.
In other words, that tongue will lock into a position.
Now do it, Tom, let the tongue move and drop down to the low E flat.
How come it moved?
Drop the tongue.
And then it's easy.
Now that should tell us something.
If the tongue is in the position for any given note, that's the only note that will come out.
Now you can start to see a little bit why we have to practice everything.
What are you doing?
Training the lip?
The lip moves as it has to.
You're training the tongue.
That should prove something else.
That the tongue is in a different position for every note of that instrument.
If the tongue position is off, you will miss the note.
So the practice has got to be to nail those intervals where they are.
St. Jacob, who has a St. Jacob one?
And he's got his, too.
That's good.
All right.
Now look on page, every one that has it, if you've got someone you've been learning.
Look on page 157, I think.
Now you'll notice in the book is a whole section of intervals.
Now he mentions, he doesn't explain, but he mentions that you develop a very good tongue this way.
He also mentions the lip, which we discussed.
That you develop a good tongue.
So what you're referring to, these intervals go like this.
Dee-dah, dee-dah, dee-dah, dee-dah, dee-dah, dee-dah, dee-dah, dee-dah.
You're training that tongue to jump those intervals and nail.
Dee-dah, dee-dah, dee-dah, dee-dah, dee-dah, dee-dah.
You notice that there's nothing but models.
The second exercise in there has 22 models on the one exercise.
Because it takes every time you change a model, like Dee-dah.
Mike, how many models do I make you do?
The one I'm doing right now I think has 15 different models.
In other words, you have got to work out every model.
If you don't, you're not training.
That tongue gets to be much more intelligent than you are.
It learned to spot a note.
That's why, you notice, David never missed one entrance,
and he had some bad entrances and not so much.
Every one's been right on it.
To tell you exactly where to go.
Bobby O'Donnell did a clinic with me once back east somewhere,
and a young player got up and raised his hand and said,
Mr. O'Donnell.
Bob was demonstrating.
He said, Mr. O'Donnell.
He says, how do you start cold on a double A flat and not miss it?
Well, for a second, Bob was taken back.
No one had ever asked him that question.
And he stood there and then he said, well, I feel it.
He was exactly right.
Now, how does he feel it?
Everybody would think, oh, the lip?
The lip doesn't change.
But you learn, you can actually see, you feel where that note is.
You know darn well you're going to nail it.
You'll also know if you're going to miss it because the feel won't be right.
That's why octaves are so important.
Like in the tongue level book, my book, that's all written with that thought in mind.
I never give that to a beginner, though.
That's fairly advanced.
The first part of it, of daily routines, who has the daily routines book with them?
Anybody that has it, take a look and show the one on there.
On page six.
Now, does everyone understand what I mean by the very tip as of against the tip?
And you can see where these erroneous ideas come in.
All right.
Now, in tongue level, or the daily routines, notice the very first exercise.
And someone has been playing 20, 30 years, they, oh, that's, that's, I don't need that.
I can play that.
Well, maybe they can.
It's not high.
It goes tati, tati, tati, tati.
But they need it because they're turning incorrectly.
You tongue that with the tip of the tongue against the lower teeth.
And you're going tati, tati, tati, tati.
And you're thinking the syllable.
And when you do, that tongue will go tati, tati, tati, tati, tati, tati, tati, tati, tat.
And you must do all the models.
Now, in the tongue level book, I want you to study that also today.
Pages two and three.
Don't get into the German or French because that might confuse you.
Just read the English text.
And study it.
Remember everything.
Get the sense of what is being said.
Now, an article came out a while back in the ITG journal.
And it said that Irons who studied with Clark.
Now, Irons, the studying he did with Clark was a sporadic study.
He lived in Texas.
Clark was in Long Beach.
Now, in those days, you didn't drive up one day and take a lesson.
So he corresponded and called him on the phone.
Once in a great while, he would see him.
Not very often.
But he got the sense of everything except that tongue there.
He still tongue incorrectly with the tip.
And this guy that was writing on Irons said that Irons tried that way of tongueing for a few days.
And then discarded it.
You're not going to do it in a few days.
So he didn't stay with it.
And it held Irons back all that time.
Because he had things that he was still struggling with.
But he did understand the tongue.
It's moving itself because he wrote a very good book that we will use.
It was called 27 Groups of Exile.
Very good book.
But he missed the point on that.
And he made the statement that he thought that maybe Clark discarded that later.
Now, that's really a supposition.
Clark never discarded anything.
He did it the same way all his life.
And I studied with him much later.
And that's the thing he was pining at me all the time.
And when I first started it, I took a complete nosedive.
I didn't get the sense of it at all.
But eventually it came through.
And the minute I got the sense of that tongue, the entire plane opened up easily.
Now, even that's talking correctly.
Can we have the slide?
Wait a minute.
I had some more demonstration there for you to do.
Oh, yeah, come over here.
Take that A flat chord.
Oh, A flat?
Just like you did.
Hold the top note.
Your tongue is like this, isn't it?
The tip is just the large tip.
Now, that's the only note that will come out of that tongue in that position.
If the tongue moves slightly either way, let's do that.
And you're going to hear another note come out.
That's the tongue.
Now then, if the tongue is in position for that A flat, it's the only note that will come out,
no matter what you do.
So wouldn't it be logical, then, if you find through practice the position of the octave above,
then your double A flat is the only note that will come out.
And the fact that it's the only note that will come out means it will be just as easy as that A flat.
You went up to A flat above yesterday, didn't you, Carl?
Yeah, we went to A flat.
If his tongue hadn't been in the right position, he wouldn't have gotten to that double A flat.
Well, you got further than that. You got to double F yesterday, didn't you?
The tongue was in the right position.
But if that tongue hadn't have been, he'd have never got up that far.
I was very hard on Carl.
He used to go really, I'd give him lessons this long.
Because he'd do it.
He really drove himself.
And when we got into the iron stroke, his tongue level wasn't working like I wanted it.
And every lesson, I'd just, okay, we'll do that.
We'll do this.
I'd try and add a little something to make it not get boring.
But same thing.
One day he says, I don't like this book.
I want to get out of it.
Give me something else.
Well, Carl, let's wait.
That's one more lesson.
Just stay one more lesson.
One more lesson, that's another month.
Yeah, Carl.
He was a little bit more covert about it than that.
He said, two weeks more.
He said, just two weeks more.
I never signed for four weeks.
He was like, it didn't dawn on me until I walked out.
William, I'm not going to see you for four weeks.
He kept knocking me in to keep going.
So he stayed on until.
He did whatever I told him.
That was good.
Then the next month he came again.
I wanted to hear that click, that tug moving in there.
It wasn't.
It was more like that.
I wanted to hear that click in there.
So I knew the tug wasn't quite right.
So he came the next month.
He said, I want to get off this book.
I don't like it.
This is driving me crazy.
So I said, well, one more lesson.
He says, that's short.
Just one more lesson and I promise I'll change it.
A month later he comes again.
I don't like this book.
So he played it and it happened.
I heard the beautiful click.
I said, okay Carl.
We'll change it now.
I don't want to change it.
I like it now.
That's just what he said.
Because it got so easy all of a sudden.
Nine months.
Nine months.
Was that right?
Was it that long?
And then boy, look how it came in.
Once he got that tug, everything got easy, didn't it Carl?
Range, everything.
So we come to our second rule.
The tongue channels the pitch.
Don't forget that.
And the two work together.
The air doesn't work.
The tongue channels the pitch.
No matter how many want to argue that with you,
that's the right way.
That's the natural way.
It's the only way it will work.
If you ever watched your tongue on a fluoroscope
while you were talking,
that thing is going so fast you hear,
oh, he's got a tongue like a snake.
You've heard that.
When you're talking, that tongue is moving faster
than a snake's tongue.
It's just moving all over the place.
And you don't know a thing about it.
You're doing it because it works that way.
Now, wouldn't, isn't it silly to think,
but use the A-flat again for an example.
The tongue is in position for the A-flat.
Now, if you raise the tip to tongue up here,
you've destroyed that position, haven't you?
Now you take the tip away,
and your T up there,
you change the whole position.
So as a result, you go ta-ee,
now the back is down,
and the tip is up.
So what happens, the tongue,
the A-flat won't come out
unless that tongue is in that position.
So when your tongue,
the tip of the tongue has got to beat that sound back down
so the tongue will be in the right position.
You want to try that tongue?
Play the A-flat hard again.
Hold the A-flat,
and watch the tongue.
Now, the minute you have it,
start turning, tee-tee-tee-tee-tee,
but let the tip come up to the top
instead of on the teeth.
See how you miss it?
That's why you wonder why some guys,
why'd I miss that note?
In fact, Clark used to ask me,
I miss something, he'd say, why'd you miss it?
And I'd have to analyze, why'd I miss it?
Generally, it was just that.
So isn't it much more sensible?
The tongue is in the right place.
Tee, like that.
Leave it there.
Always think the syllable tee as you go out.
Never too.
Disregard that syllable too.
That's the worst syllable ever devised
for a brass player.
It's not too-too-too.
That came from incorrect translation
from the French books.
They don't say too,
they say tee-tee.
So the translator
translates it to instead of tee.
Now let's do it again, Tom.
And it would be much more sensible.
The tongue is in that position.
Leave it there.
Think tee.
And just go tee-tee-tee-tee-tee.
That feels right, doesn't it?
And comfortable.
Now remember, that tongue is in a different
position for every note on the horn.
That's going to take a little practice in there.
But pretty soon you'll sense,
you'll feel,
there it is.
I went 52 weeks
at Columbia
on live broadcasts
13 shows a week.
And I was
13 shows a week.
missed anything.
For 52 weeks.
Now generally when you
miss, it'll be
lack of concentration
or just
I used to take a,
I was playing with the orchestras
and have the music on the rack.
Every time I'd miss, I'd make a little check.
With the tap.
Boy, when I first started, I had
checks all over that.
I couldn't believe how many times I was missing.
So I started working on
I quit looking at all the girls on the dance floor.
Well, not all of them.
I concentrated on what I was
First thing, they started getting less
and less and less. Finally I'd go
day after day after day without one
That's how you discipline yourself.
And if you've had
guys that we
played together, they'll tell you
those stories.
You had one of the players that
we played together on Frankie's orchestra,
He mentioned that, didn't he?
And they were always impressed.
And then I'd try and get the whole trumpet section
to do the same thing.
And instead of
having a cab to the motel, for example,
I'd get all the trumpets and try
one player. And of course, being
the first trumpet, I had a little clout, you know?
And I'd say, okay, guys,
no cab tonight.
We're going to walk to the hotel.
And we did breathing exercises all the way.
pretty soon they started to like that.
Because they felt better.
I had a good story
on that.
I was playing
in Houston
at the theater.
this was a good orchestra. I loved this orchestra.
It was just great to play with.
the guys, though, after work,
you know, they,
we're doing five shows a day,
a couple of benefits
and others. We're working all day
long. And then play a long
dance at night. So
they didn't always have the time
to relax and have any fun. So
after we're done work at night,
that's when they'd relax
and enjoy themselves.
actually, they wouldn't be getting to bed
until three and four
in the morning. And then we had
to be up. And at
the theater in those days, you do five
shows a day on stage.
And they'd have a film between each
stage presentation.
I was playing,
in those days we didn't have
three guys that
would play first. You had one first,
one second, one third. So
I had to play all the first.
Well, I found that I couldn't
go without my sleep and do
a good job. So
at much to
unhappiness of
the manager, I demanded
a private room.
Because these guys would bring their
girlfriends up and they'd have their
parties and everything.
Well, you might get to bed by five
in the morning. And then I
get up at seven. I couldn't keep that
up. So
the manager called me the prima donna
after that. Because I demanded my
private room. But I got it.
And so I'd be up at seven
in the morning. And I
walked downstairs
into the coffee shop.
And I'd
have a cup of coffee.
Sit there a minute.
Then I'd walk to the theater
where we were playing.
Doing breathing exercises all the way.
And when I got to the theater,
I'd get up
and limber up a little. Play a few
Something like that. Until I felt
good. I didn't over practice.
I just worked until I felt good.
I put the horn in the case. Walked
back to the hotel.
Now when I got back to the hotel,
now the guys were just
starting to get up.
Now never forget this one day. I walked in
the front door and here comes the elevator.
The door opens on the elevator
and here come the guys.
Off the elevator.
I'd say hi. And they'd say hi baby.
They'd say
how you doing?
Terrible. Never make it today.
Then they'd go in the coffee shop
and they'd eat all the gunk food.
You know.
Hotcakes and syrup
and eggs.
I still like those.
And they'd eat all that stuff.
Now they don't feel good either.
Then they'd
jump in a cab
and ride to the theater.
Well I'd go in
and now I'd have breakfast.
And I'd have trumpet player food.
I'd have steak and eggs.
And boy oh boy
that tasted good though.
Now I'm right away feeling great. I walked back to the theater
and the guys were just
getting their horns out you know.
Trombone player.
Great trombone. I can't remember his name.
Makes me so mad. Great
trombone. He always used to amaze me
when he'd play.
So anyway he'd get his trombone
and he'd drop the slide and squirt, squirt, squirt, squirt.
You know.
And drop the slide again.
Squirt, squirt.
Oh man.
I can't make it today.
They'd look at him and
it'll be alright.
Now they don't know
I'd been down there.
And I never told them.
So I get the horn out of the case.
Gee man I feel great.
He said how do you do that?
I said how do I do what?
Take the horn out of the case
the first thing of the day and play like a bird.
The guy standing next
to him says natural lip.
That's where
those stories get started.
They didn't know I'm down there warmed up.
I felt great.
And when you hear these stories about
great artists that come in and play
how do you know what they were doing before?
If they're
great artists they're getting ready to play.
And next
of course they get caught up in camp.
But nevertheless that's where
all those stories start to just multiply
and multiply and multiply
by the time you hear the story
it's so far out of context
that there's nothing that's right about it.
Gee man I've heard stories
of things I did I can't believe.
I think I never could
do that.
That's a phrase
you'll remember. We never played as good as they
say we did and we never played as bad
as they say we did either.
So those are all humorous stories
and you only believe a little bit
of it you know.
Now remember
the A flat is no harder
above than it is on the top of the staff
if your tongue
is in the right position.
Or, not or, and
if the chest is up
so you have to win support.
The air does the work
the tongue channels the pit.
Now let's take a look at that slide.
Patty, would you look to see if that
pointer is in that case?
Pardon me.
My breath didn't work
did it?
Did you find
the slides alright?
It would be down
in the bottom somewhere Patty lying flat.
Now this is what we're talking about.
Now this is a drawing
by a medical artist
that I had to
give Larry Miller credit for getting the artist
and writing this for me.
So it's medically correct.
up there it says E as in
C. I changed that
in the book to an S because everybody
was going key.
E as in the word
C. In fact
everybody say that. C.
C. You notice where the
tip of your tongue is? C.
It's right down on the lower teeth
isn't it? C.
Alright now, correct
no don't worry about Patty
I just use my hands.
here's the lower teeth.
Here's the
open cavity end of the throat.
There's the
Now notice here's the tip
right against the lower teeth.
Now the tongue raises up
in the front of your mouth.
Now the scoffers and ones that
want to put it down will tell you
oh no that shuts off the air.
You can't do that.
Look at the throat.
Does that appear shut off?
It's wide open.
The front of the tongue
does not change the throat
in any way.
And that's where they try
to teach you to say, no say ah
now go up, now say ah keep the throat
open. You're never going to move
if that is that way. Ah
ah ah you can't do it.
Like the word C.
Right in the front of your mouth.
Now then.
That's correct.
All your play is going to be done
right up here.
Never back here.
Your double tongue, your triple tongue,
Right there.
The K will actually
you don't try to do it but with practice
the K actually moves forward
until finally the
T and the K are just like this.
Right in the front.
And boy you can go fast then.
Rich Hoffman
is going to demonstrate that this week for you.
This tongue is getting marvelously fast.
And Dave did an excellent job
on that last night too.
Ah okay.
That is correct. Now
get the sense of that in the brass playing
book because it's very small, a little bit
harder to see. So get a good
look at that. Now let's do the other one
I've seen books
quite a few of them
that talk about the tongue
like that. And they say
E or
Notice where it raises.
When you say ICH it's clear back here.
Now that is shutting
it off isn't it?
It's an absolute damn bad there.
They go
They say that way.
Up in the front
where you need that resistance
right here.
It's wide open.
That's real good.
So it's not
Right there.
Because if it ties it would shut off.
It's TIES.
As in C.
And then
boy you get that air and it just
it just
sizzles out there.
It's just like whistling.
In a sense.
Everybody understand?
Is there any question?
All right.
Okay Tom. Now I want
to show you Tom. How many have
Walter Smith book with you?
If you have
enough Walter Smiths over there
you could pass out a few Bruce.
Keep track of them
or they'll all disappear.
Like I lose a lot of books by giving
the student a book
to this lesson.
Then I forget about it and when I pack up his books
he gets taken away.
Not intentional. That's unintentional.
And then a week later
I get a fourth one.
It's your book.
Walter Smith
was one of the great
trumpet players
in the 30s and 40s.
A poor guy died
bone cancer in his back
at 42.
Right at the height of his career.
He was not a great big guy.
He was a little guy.
You ever notice how many
great players are actually little guys?
Peter Abbott accepted.
a lot of them. Like today
Doc Severinsen is a very
fine player. He's shorter than I am.
And that
is about a lot. A lot of people
think they've got to be great big
to have lung capacity.
That has nothing to do with it.
It's not the amount of air
that's in your lung. It's what you do with it.
So little guys can be developed
just as much as great big ones.
Now in the back
of the
Smith book
what page is it?
I'm going to really put Tom on the spot.
Page what?
Years ago
at the bandmaster's convention
up in
that's in Toronto, isn't it?
The bandmaster's convention.
Wasn't that always Toronto?
It's different now.
Clark was still alive
and they had
Del Sagers
and they asked Clark to write
something for the grandstand.
This is outside remember.
There's no microphones in those days.
No sound systems.
And there were
thousands in this audience.
The bandmaster's convention
in Canada.
They still write articles on it.
Now then, Clark was
commissioned to write the music
and he wrote a trio
what was that German
great virtual
I don't know.
It was one of those.
It could have been Belstead
it had a longer name though.
I know
you know about it.
But anyway
we'll say Belstead.
That's alright for now because it doesn't matter.
One of the greats.
Alright, now the way Clark wrote the
trio was marvelous because he didn't play
Each one of these solos
was noted for
a great cadenza.
Today they'd be noted
for a jazz solo, a chorus.
But those days
the flair of the solo was the cadenza.
the band played
remember now 30,000 in the audience
and this is down on the grandstand.
No, I mean
down on the stage, no microphones.
I get a kick
because today the trumpet players
play in a room this side, they've got a mic stuck
up the bell. That's a disgrace.
If you can't play
they can't hear you, you just throw the mics away.
So anyway
he was playing this
the band played
now say Belstead came out
and he played the solo he was famous for.
And of course the crowd
was marvelous.
Then the band played
and out boxed Del Stadris.
And he plays the cadenza
that he uses in his
Carvel of Venice.
Now how'd you like to come out
and be the third one and follow those two?
You'd be on the spot,
wouldn't you?
So now the third one was Walter Smith.
And he did this
that's on this page.
Now that page is excerpts out of that
Now remember he doesn't have those
answers to it all.
And he's playing this
and at the end
he ended up on a top G
outside now
a top high G
and held it for 30 seconds.
And the crowd just
went wild.
So that was the performer. Now I'm
going to put Tom on the spot.
Nice knowing you Tom.
Now Tom is Walter Smith.
Yeah, thanks.
Now when I first
saw Tom, how many years ago?
About 11.
About 11 years ago.
I think he
got a G on top of the staff
and maybe a F.
And he struggled
and he was
one of the very conscientious players
in school. And as a result
the other players put him down.
Yeah, I know.
He just won't write it.
Now he's
doing big things. Okay.
Let's hear that.
Now we won't worry about it now. He's on the spot.
Okay, let's go.
Okay, let's go.
Now you notice
Did you notice
when he did the trill that it sounded
like a vowel? Like he was actually
trilling with a vowel? That's a tongue.
did you move over the horn
like that Tom? What is it?
What the tongue? The tongue.
That tongue in the movie
could never play that.
No way. You want to do another?
Which one do you want?
Both. Both.
I don't know about that.
That's a pretty good key for a guy that's never
going to make it.
remember now
when you do it right
when you play correct
those things are all
feasible and within your grasp.
I know the first time I saw
that Clark told me the story about
I was mind boggling and nobody could do that.
But you can.
And that was all
incorporated in one cadenza.
30,000 people
could hear it
with no microphone.
Yet today
if you play across the street
you can play across the street.
You don't have speakers this big.
That's a disgrace.
And it isn't
that you only play loud.
When you do it
right you can play
an absolute whisper
and control it.
So don't
listen to people that say this can't be
done or this is only for
a very few special
It's not talent.
It's hard work.
And to stay with it.
You can't practice one day
and lay off three.
That's not going to do anything.
You've got to practice every day.
When I first came to Hollywood
when I was studying with Clark
I practiced eight hours a day
every day.
I was starving to death
but I practiced.
I'd get up in the morning
we'd have whatever
we had for breakfast.
Sometimes we only had
oatmeal with no sugar and cream.
Because we didn't have the money
to go buy sugar and cream.
But we'd get oatmeal
for ten cents.
You see
they still have that same box, Quaker Oats.
Not that big or that high.
And that's all we'd have to eat all week.
But that's how much
I wanted to be
a great player.
Now how many of you would do that?
Eat oatmeal
three times a day
with no sugar and cream
to be a great player?
Now it depends on where
your values are.
How much do you really want to be a great
player? That's why you don't see
very many virtuosos.
There's not many
that work that hard.
I had a student of mine that was
and his
student called up
ten minutes before
the lesson.
I can't make my lesson today.
If there's anything irritating to a teacher
it's that.
Why can't you?
Well, my mom's not
here and she's
got the car and I can't get there.
You only live two or three blocks down
the street.
But he didn't want to walk that far for his lessons.
He didn't want that very much.
That's like
she and I had a talk and
I lost it.
One woman
her son wanted
very much, he wanted to come out and study.
she said
you mean to tell me
that you want to go
clear across
and pay fifty dollars for that
lesson's worth as high in those days
as I charge now.
There were fifty dollars a lesson.
And he says you mean you want to pay
fifty dollars a lesson and go clear
across town to get it?
He said there's a teacher
right down here on the corner
for three dollars a lesson.
And that's just what he got
a three dollar teacher.
And I never heard any more or anything about it.
Where are your values?
I went
hungry to learn how to play.
Slept in the car
night after night.
You don't
dare do that now.
The top would be up there in about ten minutes
flashing the light.
Fortunately in those days we did it.
And I did it saying I'm not proud of it.
But I had no other way.
We had
to get some sleep somewhere.
So I checked in the motel.
everyone saw me wake up and look.
As soon as that sun started to appear
we got up in that dress, had a shower
and got out of the motel.
Never did pay for it.
I wish I knew where it was now
because I'd go send them
a double check for that night.
But I don't even remember where it was.
We checked in
to a hotel
in Hollywood when I first got to
town. The only reason we got into that
hotel was because
we had baggage.
Because then if you didn't
pay they'd keep your baggage.
There were no credit cards.
Nothing like that.
I had five dollars in my pocket.
And that was it.
And that's how we got into that hotel.
And then it's a long story from then on.
But we never gave up.
We kept at it.
And I thought everybody in
Hollywood, this is an entertainment town.
It was a beautiful town.
There was no smog, no trucks.
It was
the real Hollywood
motion picture town.
It was beautiful.
And boy you'd be thrilled all the time.
You'd see all the famous people around.
And it was very
enjoyable. Sunset Boulevard
was the entertainment spot
of the world.
The Trocadero was there.
Ciro's, all the great night clubs.
It was just a wonderful place.
Now you don't dare walk down
it at night. But it was great
in those days.
And I saw the Palladium
built. I saw
the old Trocadero burned down.
All these things.
It was a wonderful era. But we survived.
And I thought everybody in
Hollywood would be nice and supportive.
They weren't. They weren't at all.
I used to practice
in a closet
a hundred degrees outside.
I'd practice in this closet.
It was a hundred and ten degrees outside.
And I'd close
the windows.
Line closed around me.
It gets so hot I'd take off all my clothes.
Because it's just so uncomfortable.
And I'd practice that way.
In that closet.
Things would have been better.
And I'd practice in that closet.
And I'd practice in that closet.
And I'd practice in that closet.
And I'd practice in that closet.
Things would have progressed
much better if I could have
practiced normal.
But that's the way I practiced.
And I kept at it.
Until things started to happen.
Where are your values?
How much do you really want to be
not a player,
a great player?
buying a horn.
You expect it to work. It doesn't work.
You look for one that'll play.
You don't find it.
You look for another one.
That doesn't work so you gotta
get mouthpieces.
Boy, I had a box of mouthpieces like that.
I'll tell you about that
the day we discuss mouthpieces.
But those things are very interesting.
And I'm very fortunate
because I see the same quality
in 99%
of my students.
And that is so gratifying.
And they take
lessons constantly.
Like one of the things,
I'm sure you've had them say that.
What do you take lessons for?
You play alright.
What would you ask them for?
I just want to keep learning.
And you can take
all your life.
If Clark was alive,
believe me, I'd still be going to it.
If for nothing else
is moral support.
And he could look at you and say,
you're not doing that very good.
Like he'd tell me, I'd play something
I'd worked like crazy on it.
And I'd go, where did I get over there?
This week. And I'd go out and I'd play it.
He always called me
And I'd play it
and I'd wait for the compliments.
And he'd say,
very good Claude.
It was always like that.
But every time I went to him,
I could be down like this.
So low,
because of the flack you get
and the talk. What do you do this for?
Do you think you're going to make it?
And you'll all hear that.
The higher you climb
up the ladder of success,
the more hands there's going to be
to pull you down.
And I'd get down there and oh,
I'd feel so bad. When I walked down
that lesson, I'm right on top of the world
again. He just had a wonderful
knack of giving me that
You can do it. Okay.
what have I overlooked?
The tape.
Oh, the tape.
Video tape. Oh, yeah.
Now then, we talk about
and in the
flack book,
talks about playing correct.
we'll do the fingers tomorrow.
We only got a couple more minutes.
We only got a couple more minutes.
Oh, good.
Oh, great.
this is a clinic
I did out of Chicago
right after
I had the heart surgery.
And if Larry Miller had been there, he'd have stopped me
I know. He wouldn't have let me do it.
But I figured
this is going to be the last
demonstration I ever do.
So I wanted to do it.
And we had the nicest bunch of kids
in that audience. There weren't too many.
It was a small high school.
And Selmer sent out a video
crew and they taped.
If I could get the tape
that I could get it to the
students at a little better price.
But we may eventually.
I don't know.
Anyone, if you can get it,
I would hardly recommend it.
Because you will look at it over and over.
You'll learn something every time.
As I say, it's the last
time I ever demonstrate.
Now this, they were talking
and range.
I took this exercise out
of the Irons book.
that's demonstrated how easy it is
to go up to double C.
And back down.
going up like this, there's players
that'll come out there and
they'll play a high note.
Get them down in the middle register
and nothing comes out.
Terrible sound.
No low register at all.
Like today,
as I say, the krill things are still
amazing to everybody.
They're not hard.
If you're playing it
So this was a little demonstration
on that. How are we doing?
Yeah, we're off to you then.
You got it?
Got the sound up loud?
Rather than exercise,
I'm going to demonstrate how
I do it.
Wait a minute.
Barbara, do I
turn this off?
I wish I could
look as
energetic as then.
And then I thought I was
on the last legs.
back up to low C.
See, the purpose
of that was showing that you
can bounce.
That you
can go up
and come down.
Clear down to the bottom of the horn.
Actually, there's not
much effort.
It takes a little
power and
tongue level.
That's it.